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Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

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Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#131

Post by dzhiurgis »

xattt wrote: post #10
Aurornis wrote: post #9

I'm all for installing air filters in classrooms for a number of reasons, but I also think the extreme results from this study aren't going to hold up to further research. From the paper: > To do so, I leverage a unique setting arising from the largest gas leak in United States history, whereby the offending gas company installed air filters in every classroom, office and common area for all schools within five miles…

If anything, schools able to implement air filtration and fresh air exchanges systems are likely those flush with cash and supportive parents.

These systems are not that expensive and save money.

If parents would be allowed to contribute towards it like a 10year bond it would pay for itself…

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#132

Post by dzhiurgis »

eru wrote: post #69
do_not_redeem wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think everyone lives in California where there's comfortable sunny temperatures and no rain 360 days a year? Classic ycombinator post

German schools open their windows in winter. It's the classic German Stoßlüften in action. However, the air outside also has lots of dusts. Opening the windows does nothing for that, but air filtration can potentially help.

We did it too, but it was huge ceremony around it. Kids shouldn’t be begging and screaming “too cold” for fresh air.

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#133

Post by LorenPechtel »

mmooss wrote: post #30
Aurornis wrote: post #9

I'm all for installing air filters in classrooms for a number of reasons, but I also think the extreme results from this study aren't going to hold up to further research. From the paper: > To do so, I leverage a unique setting arising from the largest gas leak in United States history, whereby the offending gas company installed air filters in every classroom, office and common area for all schools within five miles…

Based on your comment, the effect could be larger as well as smaller. All research is met on HN by people who know better and will tell you why it's flawed. There isn't a greater collection of expertise in the history of the world than on HN. Edit: I meant to add: What value can we find in this research? It wasn't published as scripture, the perfect answer to all our problems. It's one study of some interesting event…

Things which reach the level of getting on here are basically always outliers. And is the outlier real or a false positive? There's a huge selection bias towards the false positives.

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#134

Post by LorenPechtel »

7thaccount wrote: post #32
Aurornis wrote: post #9

I'm all for installing air filters in classrooms for a number of reasons, but I also think the extreme results from this study aren't going to hold up to further research. From the paper: > To do so, I leverage a unique setting arising from the largest gas leak in United States history, whereby the offending gas company installed air filters in every classroom, office and common area for all schools within five miles…

I'm a big fan of air filters and have many in my own home that have made a big difference in quality of life as I live in a high pollen area. They can help with a lot more irritants as well that some students may be sensitive to (i.e., some students may study better if their immune system isn't in overdrive for half the school year like mine was). I'm not sure how these would help with natural gas though. I can't rea…

The gas was long gone, it wasn't being filtered.

However, I don't see that it proves pollution is the cause. What about infection? Air filtration can reduce the spread of pathogens. Schools throw together a large pool of people, the bug of the day will go around. Less if there are good filters.

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#136

Post by LorenPechtel »

MPSFounder wrote: post #37
Aurornis wrote: post #9

I'm all for installing air filters in classrooms for a number of reasons, but I also think the extreme results from this study aren't going to hold up to further research. From the paper: > To do so, I leverage a unique setting arising from the largest gas leak in United States history, whereby the offending gas company installed air filters in every classroom, office and common area for all schools within five miles…

I wish we made more efforts to check air quality. I went to a great school, and the water filter hadnt been replaced since 2005 (it was 2012 at the time, and filters were supposed to be replaced every 6 months). My point is people take it for granted that air quality or water quality in the US is great, but if we checked, I bet most of us are exposed to cancerous materials all the time that could be easily prevented…

Steel pipes? You realize steel that can be made into a pipe contains some metals you want to minimize your exposure to?

As for painting over asbestos--that's actually considered acceptable. Asbestos sitting there isn't going to hurt you. Asbestos only hurts you when it's disturbed. Removing intact asbestos is likely to increase your exposure, not decrease it.

As for cancer--why are you so sure it's chemicals and not lifestyle?

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#137

Post by LorenPechtel »

culopatin wrote: post #135

I wonder how smart I’d be if I didn’t sit in a classroom full of metal tables that got painted with such a thick layer of oil paint that it stunk of paint thinner until Spring

Yeah, I got driven out of college by one bad building. (This was back before it was understood that a building can be a problem.) I simply couldn't think properly while in it. A problem with classes, a showstopper when the labs were in the building. I'm sure I would have flunked out if I had tried to take those classes. I have no idea what I was reacting to but there sure was something. (It felt a lot like one house where I had the same sense of something bad walking in the door--and long later a wall full of black mold was discovered.)

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#138

Post by LorenPechtel »

vlovich123 wrote: post #64
frognumber wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CO2 is a proxy for many other gasses. Cheap CO2 sensors sense volatile organic compounds (VOCs), and use those to estimate CO2. Many of those gasses do impact cognitive performance. It's not obvious to me why CO2 would, but if CO2 is going up, so is everything else we breathe out. CO2 where I am is somewhere in the ≈400ppm-1000ppm range -- 0.04% or 0.1% -- and it's pretty inert. I'm not sure what harm it does. If it…

Rising co2 levels I believe are nowhere near the differential inside vs outside when windows are closed. There’s lots of reason to believe that rising co2 specifically lowers cognitive performance - our brains work on o2 and our body actively works to expel co2 as a waste product - increasing co2 levels means the body has less O2 available and has to work harder on co2 expulsion for survival instead of powering the b…

Crowding out O2 isn't going to be meaningful, the amount of CO2 is simply too small. If there's an effect it's from reducing the rate at which the body can expel the CO2.

If crowding out O2 was relevant why do I feel the same on our local mountain at 10,000'+ vs 0'- in Death Valley? To crowd out that much O2 with CO2 would be lethal. (That's not to say that my performance is the same. There's a big difference in the heart rate I can sustain.) What we feel is the CO2 level in our blood rising because it isn't diffusing into the lungs. Lowering O2 is only detectable with training and that's based on noting the symptoms of oxygen deficiency on brain function. (Such training is relevant in the world of aviation where it might give warning that you need to grab that oxygen mask. The average person will never encounter such conditions, nor have the resources at hand to make use of the knowledge even if they did realize it.)

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#139

Post by LorenPechtel »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #111
jwpapi wrote: post #5

Personal anecdote getting an airthings that reminds me to open the window (along with a pushover api setup) has probably been the biggest productivity improvement in 10 years.

It's kinda worrying you need an app / appliance to remember to open the window. Rule of thumb is to have the windows open at least 10 minutes a day, every day.

You realize a lot of us live in places where that would be very expensive? Not to mention that the HVAC plants are usually not sized with that in mind.

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#140

Post by LorenPechtel »

Balgair wrote: post #35

Anecdote: Our daycare was a plague ship right after covid 'ended'. None of the kids had any immunities, and they made up for it in a hurry. Man, what a terrible year. As a result, the daycare got a grant to get N-95 air filters installed and those UV lights that Chinese restaurants tend to have in the bathrooms. One per room. What. A. Difference. The infants and kids coming up are not nearly as sick, and when they do…

What lights are you talking about? UV capable of disinfecting isn't something you want to be looking at. (Are you perhaps thinking of the bug-zapper lamps that are sometimes described as UV? Way up at the top of the visual spectrum, a lot of bugs go for them. But they're just a lure to get the bug between the high voltage wires that actually kill it.)

The only disinfecting UV lights I've heard of for use in occupied areas are hanging things that only point up where nobody's going to be exposed. I have heard of some research for safe UV lights that are high up in the UV, they actually still burn but without enough penetration to get through the dead skin layer.

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