Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

infosec.exchange

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 288 posts

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#131

Post by throwaway290 »

rkharsan64 wrote: post #91
freehorse wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you install anything from the windows store without a Microsoft account, or from google play without a google one? I assume this is already the state of affairs since ever, but except iOS all the rest allow you to install stuff outside their stores.

You can install things from Windows/Microsoft Store without an account.

The point is you are not going to be allowed to even install windows without an account to make use of the great privilege of using a walled garden app store.

And no one on this forum really needs app store when homebrew exists

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#132

Post by consp »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #115
brokegrammer wrote: post #29

A while ago, I needed to get into safe mode to rescue a laptop that wouldn't boot. Since it uses Windows 11, I originally logged in using my Microsoft Account and a Windows Hello pin. Safe mode doesn't load wifi drivers and the laptop didn't have an ethernet port, so I couldn't log in to my Microsoft Account to get into Windows safe mode. Didn't have a dongle with ethernet port at that time, so I had to backup the dr…

Reinstalled windows recently, now it has the window resize bug, which apparently has something to do with display sleep mode. Reportedly linux struggles with sleep modes too, but to think I should try linux for better hardware support, duh. And new windows is very fiddly, constantly tries to install new metro apps, adds them to lock screen, installs new services, runs a shit ton of services that constantly write a lo…

Linux struggles with sleep mode sometimes due to Microsoft and Intel pushing S3 into S2idle and motherboard/bios manufacturers doing the absolute minimum to support either.

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#133

Post by brokegrammer »

lolsowrong wrote: post #81
brokegrammer wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you need internet connection to even login That's right. It sounds like a bug but this is Microsoft we're talking about here. They're probably brainstorming for ways to lock you from your own computer. You can solve this problem by creating an offline account with Admin privileges after setting up Windows with your online account, but most users won't do that.

This doesn’t seem true. Doesn’t LSASS cache credentials for 30 days?

No idea. Maybe it cleared the cache when I asked to enter safe mode. Either way, relying on a cache to get root access doesn't seem right.

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#134

Post by aboringusername »

Does anyone have an idea if you were to enable wifi and register a MS account exactly what data is being sent to them? Do they send your MAC address? Obviously your IP address and I assume during account creation they would want your phone number/alt email? I can see Windows not being accessible as some places genuinely don't have internet, and if they do, it's heavily restricted. I've also heard if you enter something like "a@a.com" or a banned email during setup it can let you through?

Obviously this is a way of 'legitimizing' consent to data collection and it would be very interesting to see a breakdown of every byte of data MS gets sent (even file explorer communicates with a US IP address).

I genuinely think the EU needs to take a look at this, I would be very surprised it this wasn't abusing their monopoly-like position for mandatory data collection (although, they probably welcome it!).

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#135

Post by isaacremuant »

ashoeafoot wrote: post #60
bboygravity wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the NSA pays them to. Why did they do to Skype what they did (first turn it from p2p to centralized and spyable and then just ignore it and let it die)? Same reason.

i wonder if some Estonian could justvrerelease the p2p originals . After all as america deteriorates its own influence , at some point the lawyers of the big 4 will be seen as barely disguised tendril of a hostile power in Europe . Who cares about your sales contracts if the president goes for Greenland . We might see a SkyEarthFireWater-Open source re-release one day. Just another tradewar anecdote .

Join us back in the real world with no Trump derangement syndrome and you'll find out that European governments want an airtight control on companies so they can surveil them and people absolutely.

They want narrative control and squashing rising political opposition.

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#136

Post by consp »

anothernewdude wrote: post #68
soraminazuki wrote: post #11

It's such an absurd lie. If Microsoft's idea of security is to force its users to authenticate online for a local account, they should never be allowed in the software industry at all. They're needlessly and dramatically increasing the attack surface of one of the most security critical software running on user devices.

If windows is security critical for you, I think you've already shat the bed.

Some windows versions have cc certification. Doesn't say much but it ticks the box some people want and call it a day.

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#137

Post by samiv »

0xmarcin wrote: post #123
samiv wrote: post #45

I'm also 100% convinced Microsoft will introduce mandatory code signing at some point and make it so that you can only ever install software from Windows Store. They are envious of the Google and Apple walled gardens/cashcows and are now determined to turn Windows into one. Windows is no longer a product for users, the users of Windows are the product for Microsoft to be shoved into the Azure sales funnel.

I highly doubt it, Windows is known for its stellar backward compatibility. Code signing means a lot of older software, that is still in use, would not be able to install or run. This is not going to happen (at least in the enterprise).

I have mad respect for Microsoft engineers for the compatibility work that they've done over the past decades. It is indeed superb that you can take even today an old Win32 executable and run it and it'll just work.

But I expect the new leadership will not put much value on this. I imagine it'd play out that first to "to enhance the security and improve the UX" they'll start a shoving a bunch of nagging dialogs in the users face "this app is not safe" etc.

Then they'll add a flag to enable "unsafe mode" where the user can run unverified / unsigned code.

Then finally they'll just nuke the flag.

After all requiring that the ecosystem with the most "important" apps such as their own office suite, slack, adobe etc. grind out new versions with digital signing is not out of alignment with these companies incentives and development cycles either.

In fact I would not find it surprising if these companies would actually be approached by Microsoft to participate in any such scheme and get offered some kind of "discount" or reward (whether it's app store discount or whatever else) and these companies would only see it strengthening their own moats against any possible competition.

And I'm talking about the consumer use case, not the corporate.

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#138

Post by anthk »

samiv wrote: post #137
0xmarcin wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt it, Windows is known for its stellar backward compatibility. Code signing means a lot of older software, that is still in use, would not be able to install or run. This is not going to happen (at least in the enterprise).

I have mad respect for Microsoft engineers for the compatibility work that they've done over the past decades. It is indeed superb that you can take even today an old Win32 executable and run it and it'll just work. But I expect the new leadership will not put much value on this. I imagine it'd play out that first to "to enhance the security and improve the UX" they'll start a shoving a bunch of nagging dialogs in th…

You don't know how many ad-hoc legacy apps based on Java/C# are out there. Zillions. If you want to give GNU/Linux a huge chunk of share (Java and C# code from early 00's/2010 will run everywhere), MS would face a huge disaster and billions of loses.

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#139

Post by Cyphase »

Kab1r wrote: post #47

Is there a good reason (other than licensing and Linux as an alternative) I shouldn't use Windows Server 202X as a Desktop OS?

I've heard tell that some software out there will refuse to operate on Windows Server because of licensing, like perhaps they want you to get a business license. I have no evidence at hand, but something to look into.

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#140

Post by microtonal »

consp wrote: post #132
GoblinSlayer wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reinstalled windows recently, now it has the window resize bug, which apparently has something to do with display sleep mode. Reportedly linux struggles with sleep modes too, but to think I should try linux for better hardware support, duh. And new windows is very fiddly, constantly tries to install new metro apps, adds them to lock screen, installs new services, runs a shit ton of services that constantly write a lo…

Linux struggles with sleep mode sometimes due to Microsoft and Intel pushing S3 into S2idle and motherboard/bios manufacturers doing the absolute minimum to support either.

I had the same impression, but support for new sleep modes seems to improve quickly. A few years ago I had a Gen 1 ThinkPad T14 AMD, which still had S3 sleep. A significant portion of the resumes it would come up with some devices not working (e.g. trackpad, fingerprint reader, etc.). I recently got the 5th Gen T14 AMD and the only issue I have is that the fingerprint auth takes a few seconds to come up, but other than that I haven't had any resume issues yet.
Post reply on HN