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The role of developer skills in agentic coding

martinfowler.com

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Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#131

Post by lioeters »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #124
lioeters wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we will move the goalposts to ensure the rough spots of AI are massaged out Totally agree with this point. Software engineering will adapt to work better with LLMs. It will influence how we think about programming language design, as an interface to human readers/writers as well as for machines to "understand", generate, and refine. There was a recent article about how LLMs will stifle innovation due to its cutoff…

> One thing I hope for is that we'll see more emphasis on thorough and precisely worded documentation. Being on this planet long enough, I've learned this won't happen and in fact the quality of such will degrade making the AI using them degrade and we'll all have to just accept these flaws and work around them like so many myriad technical flaws in our current systems today

True, that's a probable and very real risk that this recursive cycle of LLMs consuming LLM-produced content will degrade the overall quality of its "intelligence" and "creativity", maybe even the quality of literature, language, and human thought itself. By the time we collectively realize the mistake, it will be too late. Like microplastics, it will be everywhere and inside everything, and we'll just have to learn to live with it for better or worse.

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#132

Post by echoangle »

owebmaster wrote: post #126
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your reply is a bit unfair. The first problem of the AI using outdated libraries sure it can be fixed if you are a competent developer who keeps up with industry standards. But if you need someone like that to guide an AI, then "agentic" coding loses a lot of its "agentic" ability which is what the article is talking about. If you need enthusiasts and experts to steer the AIs, they are a bit like "full self d…

It is definitely not unfair. #2 is a great strategy, I'm gonna try in my agentic tool. We obviously need experts to steer the AIs in this current phase, who said we don't?

> We obviously need experts to steer the AIs in this current phase, who said we don't?

I don't know if it's explicitely said but if you call it agentic, it sounds like it can do stuff independently (like an agent). If I still need to hand feed it everything, I wouldn't really call it agentic.

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#134

Post by quest88 »

codr7 wrote: post #114

I don't get it, at all. Why are experienced developers so enthusiastic about chaining themselves to such an obviously crappy and unfulfilling experience? I like writing code and figuring stuff out, that's why I chose a career in software development in the first place.

I don't enjoy the keypresses of building useful features. I like identifying what needs to be changed, and how, in abstract terms. These tools quickly help me verify those changes are right.

If I need to call the VideoService to fetch some data, I don't want to spend time writing that and the tests that come with it. I'd rather outsource that part.

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#135

Post by sReinwald »

hnlurker22 wrote: post #66
ikerino wrote: post #12

I use Cursor for most of my development these days. This article aligns pretty closely with my experiences. A few additional observations: 1. Anecdotally, AI agents feel stuck somewhere circa ~2021. If I install newer packages, Claude will revert to outdated packages/implementations that were popular four years ago. This is incredibly frustrating to watch and correct for. Providing explicit instructions for which pac…

It's all true but I'm surprised it took so long to realize this. As someone who is not an early adopter, I decided to give AI a shot in helping with an existing project a few days ago. I immediately realized almost everything mentioned here. However, the sentiment of everything i've read before was that AI can already replace me. In reality I enjoy steering it to reach a solution.

> In reality I enjoy steering it to reach a solution.

That resonates with me. It actually brings back some nostalgic memories about setting up and constantly tweaking bots in World of Warcraft (sorry, I was young).

There's something incredibly engaging and satisfying about configuring them just right and then sitting back, watching your minions run around and do your bidding.

I get a similar vibe when I'm working with AI coding assistants. It's less about the (currently unrealistic) hype of full replacement and more about trying to guide these powerful, and often erratic, tools to do what they're supposed to.

For me, it taps into that same core enjoyment of automating and observing a process unfold that I got with those WoW bots. Perhaps unsurprisingly, automation is now a fairly big part of my job.

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#136

Post by airstrike »

andai wrote: post #89
kristopolous wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#1 has an easy fix. Clone the dependency you want to use in the directory of your code. Instruct it to go into the directory and look at that code in order to complete task X: "I've got a new directory xyz, in it contains a library to do feature abc. I'll need to include it here to do A to function B and so on" The weird version mixing bug will disappear. If it's closed source, then just do the documentation. You nee…

We do this not because it is easy, but because we thought it would be easy.

I need that on a shirt

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#137

Post by kristopolous »

moqizhengz wrote: post #88
kristopolous wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#1 has an easy fix. Clone the dependency you want to use in the directory of your code. Instruct it to go into the directory and look at that code in order to complete task X: "I've got a new directory xyz, in it contains a library to do feature abc. I'll need to include it here to do A to function B and so on" The weird version mixing bug will disappear. If it's closed source, then just do the documentation. You nee…

This is a very typical reply when we see someone pointing out the flaws of AI coding tools. "You are using it wrong, AI can do everything if you properly prompt it" Yes, it can write everything if I provide enough context, but it ain't 'Intelligence' if context ~= output. The point here is providing enough context itself is challenging and requires expertise, this makes AI ides unusable for many scenarios.

It's a piece of software, not a magical wand

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#139

Post by croemer »

> I want to preface this by saying that AI tools are categorically and always bad at the things that I’m listing.

I think there's a not missing there. Why would you preface that they are categorically and always bad? Makes more sense the other way round.

Also grammar error "effected" instead of "affected" in the footer.

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#140

Post by rafaelmn »

kristopolous wrote: post #137
moqizhengz wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very typical reply when we see someone pointing out the flaws of AI coding tools. "You are using it wrong, AI can do everything if you properly prompt it" Yes, it can write everything if I provide enough context, but it ain't 'Intelligence' if context ~= output. The point here is providing enough context itself is challenging and requires expertise, this makes AI ides unusable for many scenarios.

It's a piece of software, not a magical wand

In terms of use it's closer to a magic wand than traditional software.
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