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The Great Barefoot Running Hysteria of 2010

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Re: The Great Barefoot Running Hysteria of 2010

#131

Post by lukewrites »

wonger_ wrote: post #83

Seems we've attracted all the barefoot runners in this thread and none of the common-footed people... Anyways, I'll add my experience with barefoot running: - Forefoot/midfoot strike is the most important takeaway. Heel strikes are for walking (slow, low-impact), not running (faster, higher-impact). - I used to get shin splints from sports like soccer and basketball. But as long as I do some barefoot jogging (1-2x/we…

For wide cleats, check out Mizuno. I get mine on eBay from sellers in Japan. I tried literally every other wide cleat I could find in the US and nothing fit as well as Mizunos.

The Monarcida line is less expensive and has 4E sizing (the SW or Super-Wide models) but I’ve never really liked them because of the synthetic material they’re made from and the studs on the shoes.

The other option, which I’ve gone with, is the Monarca line. They’re usually made from Kangaroo leather (which can be stretched) and have a relatively wide sole plate. There are different Monarcas, looks for the “classic” ones not the alphas which have a synthetic upper and are said to run more narrow. Of the Monarca line, the MIJ (Made In Japan) shoes are supposed to be the widest and highest quality.

After so many years of wearing minimalist shoes I’ve found that cleats aren’t too comfortable to run in so I’ve gone to just wearing turf shoes. Mizuno’s previous models had a very bendy sole that lets my foot move pretty freely.

Re: The Great Barefoot Running Hysteria of 2010

#132

Post by delichon »

JackMorgan wrote: post #25

The whole mythos of running barefoot got me and my wife into running! We did actual barefoot just a little bit before switching to toe shoes. We ran in those until 2021. We only switched to Xeros because of the "grass stuck between the toes" effect when hiking and the ability to get slightly thicker soles with lugs. From when we started in 2009 to today, we both had to increase two shoe sizes. She just finished her f…

I resolved my plantar fasciitis by switching from hiking boots to thin soled trail runners. My theory is that it makes me take more care in putting my feet down, and makes me stretch them considerably more as they conform to rocks and holes. I was just stomping over everything in the boots.

I read someone who said that walking barefoot was a religious experience for them, in which every step was a prayer. Someone responded that they weren't as religious, and for them every step was fondling the earth. Both work for me, and both work better with thinner soles.

Re: The Great Barefoot Running Hysteria of 2010

#133

Post by ng-user »

wonger_ wrote: post #83

Seems we've attracted all the barefoot runners in this thread and none of the common-footed people... Anyways, I'll add my experience with barefoot running: - Forefoot/midfoot strike is the most important takeaway. Heel strikes are for walking (slow, low-impact), not running (faster, higher-impact). - I used to get shin splints from sports like soccer and basketball. But as long as I do some barefoot jogging (1-2x/we…

Hmm, interesting. I've recently gotten back into running, however shin splints are preventing me from running as much or as far as I would like. My cardio is good, but my legs/shins are what starts screaming first forcing me to stop. I also currently run almost exclusively on a treadmill (due to winter weather), which may be a self-inflicted issue.

Do you have any insight on treadmill or track, vs. running outside?

How far do you barefoot jog each week that seems to be enough for you?

Re: The Great Barefoot Running Hysteria of 2010

#134

Post by bo1024 »

maayank wrote: post #85
bo1024 wrote: post #4

It's a pretty good article. In that era I saw two major misconceptions around minimalism in running footwear. The first is the idea that heel-to-toe "drop" is the the main important metric -- of course, a shoe company thing. Actually what matters a lot more is proprioception -- the feeling of knowing where your foot is in space relative to the ground, and also the feedback your foot is getting from the ground. The se…

what brands get proprioception well?

I think anything whose soles are really thin and not too hard. I'm partial to Xero, but there's a lot of possibilities.

I do think all shoes, except those original Vibram Five Fingers, are not a great substitute for barefoot running itself. Running barefoot on a nice grass field feels so much nicer and more fun, too! But the minimal shoes do help force you to feel the ground and not just slam into it, so I think they can help.

Whatever you do, I'd only make changes slowly: try 10 minutes of barefoot running or with different shoes, a couple times a week at the end of a normal run, and go from there.

Re: The Great Barefoot Running Hysteria of 2010

#135

Post by bo1024 »

ggm wrote: post #8
bo1024 wrote: post #4

It's a pretty good article. In that era I saw two major misconceptions around minimalism in running footwear. The first is the idea that heel-to-toe "drop" is the the main important metric -- of course, a shoe company thing. Actually what matters a lot more is proprioception -- the feeling of knowing where your foot is in space relative to the ground, and also the feedback your foot is getting from the ground. The se…

I think your proprioception point is huge. I sometimes randomly get a floppy foot. In anything but structurally sound shoes, I'm wrecked. Would barefoot running have avoided the problem or exacerbated the problem?

No idea, honestly. Normally I'd think a few minutes at a time of barefoot jogging on a soft surface isn't likely to hurt and might help.

Re: The Great Barefoot Running Hysteria of 2010

#136

Post by canucker2016 »

threeseed wrote: post #38
spacecadet wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Shoes are meaningless, pose, stride, biomechanical process.

They can make a difference for athletes: "The data showed significant differences in the oxygen uptake (a way to measure the energy cost of running) in the Vaporfly shoe resulting in a 2.8 percent improved running economy, or the amount of energy it takes a runner to go a certain distance, over the Adidas shoe on average" https://lifesciences.byu.edu/can-your-shoes-really-make-you-...

But not every runner sees improvement in time. so-called non-responders exist at the elite level but I don't recall seeing any analysis as to why some runners run faster and others don't with these carbon-plate shoes.

[edit] a quick search found this article about supershoes and the range of response - see https://run.outsideonline.com/gear/super-shoe-hyper-responde...

Re: The Great Barefoot Running Hysteria of 2010

#137

Post by RankingMember »

ng-user wrote: post #133
wonger_ wrote: post #83

Seems we've attracted all the barefoot runners in this thread and none of the common-footed people... Anyways, I'll add my experience with barefoot running: - Forefoot/midfoot strike is the most important takeaway. Heel strikes are for walking (slow, low-impact), not running (faster, higher-impact). - I used to get shin splints from sports like soccer and basketball. But as long as I do some barefoot jogging (1-2x/we…

Hmm, interesting. I've recently gotten back into running, however shin splints are preventing me from running as much or as far as I would like. My cardio is good, but my legs/shins are what starts screaming first forcing me to stop. I also currently run almost exclusively on a treadmill (due to winter weather), which may be a self-inflicted issue. Do you have any insight on treadmill or track, vs. running outside? H…

I'd be curious to know whether you're heel striking when running. I'm a natural heel-striker, but I forced a change to mid-foot and my shin-splints disappeared altogether. It took a little time to build up to my heel-strike pace, but I did and was able to continue to avoid shin splints even at the same pace. All of this was done with regular running shoes (not barefoot-style).

Re: The Great Barefoot Running Hysteria of 2010

#138

Post by spacemark »

philipwhiuk wrote: post #96
johnsmth wrote: post #12

If you were a red-blooded progressive maker-type of person in 2010, and you read Born to Run and didn't immediately go out and buy a pair of Vibram 5 Fingers, I really have to wonder if we're going to get along. Never use the shoes anymore but that book has made me a healthier human for sure.

What a wild take.

Seriously. Hasn't the main thesis of that book (a distinct advantage of human upright evolution is our ability to run long distances) and several key supporting points been mostly disproven scientifically (early humans often hunted by running to exhaustion, for example)?

Seems to me another enticing narrative with little to no sound evidence a la Guns, Germs, and Steel, Sapiens, and the like. The stuff this site loves to gobble up with comment after comment of supporting anecdata.

Re: The Great Barefoot Running Hysteria of 2010

#139

Post by RankingMember »

lm28469 wrote: post #48

> strongly worded claims: barefoot running prevented injuries; barefoot running was more efficient; heel striking was evil; barefoot running was the natural and therefore "correct" way to run. Anecdata: a friend of mine has been running for years, and for years he complained about knee pain. As it turns out he was heel striking the whole time, it completely disappeared since I told him to run 50 meters barefoot to fi…

FWIW I had knee pain whenever I ran and my natural point of contact has always been the heel. I forced a change to mid-foot and it went away. Felt pretty unnatural for a bit and I was slower, but was able to build up to my heel-strike pace eventually. (all this done with regular running shoes)

Re: The Great Barefoot Running Hysteria of 2010

#140

Post by RankingMember »

ghc wrote: post #105
lm28469 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're in the goofy looking clown tier carbon plate $400 shoes that self destruct after 50km era: https://assets.adidas.com/images/w_600,f_auto,q_auto/2d9fa49... In 10 years we'll be writing about how dumb this trend is while we revert to barefoot running

The only way we'll be seeing that trend go away is if they're banned. Those shoes improve race times so much they stretch the definition of what should be legal in racing. Nobody's going to revert to barefoot running for racing unless they don't care about their times.

Yeah, they may look goofy but they work, similar to how lycra makes one look like a power ranger but you won't see anyone in the TDF wearing a hoodie and jeans.
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