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Moving away from US cloud services

martijnhols.nl

131–140 of 383 posts

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#131

I would like to see a movement more along the lines of "Moving away from cloud services", not just US services. Our computers are faster than ever, internet bandwidth is not a problem, public IPs affordable. Why not self host when possible?

For hobby projects this has always been an option, but a business will prefer the reliability and value add offered by cloud services.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#132
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both companies are excellent, and I'd absolutely trust them with my business, but neither can replace something like AWS. The friends I have at companies who are actively using AWS are all relying on a fairly large number of AWS only services. Either they'd need to stand up their own replacements and host those services on VMs, or in some cases rewrite parts of their stack. E.g. if you're using AWS Cognito then you'r…

Exactly! You can get a bare minimum, like a virtual machine (EC2) or storage (S3), which probably enough for small and medium enterprises (SME). However, if we move beyond, I'm not sure as I don't have experience with them. Now, if I'm building a prototype, I want something quick and just a lack of Cognito is a deal breaker.

[deleted]

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#133

A shame that OP recommends Proton. The fact they don't support open email protocols like IMAP/SMTP without an extremely frustrating proxy setup is what ultimately turned me away from their service. Being able to "just" use a native mail client is pretty much a must. The vendor lock-in from something like Proton feels way worse as a result. Can't speak to Proton Pass, but it strikes me as a replacement that seems unne…

What's a good alternative to Proton? Still haven't migrated my business away from Google Workspace, and I was thinking Proton would be a good alternative, but apparently not if they don't even support IMAP/SMTP.

https://tuta.com/

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I'm not a fan of Proton either. Especially because they hammer so much on their "Encryption" thing while 95% of the mails you get will come unencrypted from one of the big tech parties, Google, Microsoft, Amazon. So what is the point, really? And because of this indeed it is very hard to connect to it. Email is just dead as a tech. It's no surprise nobody uses it for sensitive content anymore but instead just use…

> It's no surprise nobody uses it for sensitive content anymore I get password reset links for pretty much every website on email. Few things as sensitive as that. I also receive and send documents, signed or for signing, with pretty sensitive information, over email. I agree it shouldn't be used for those but it certainly still is.

There's so many organisations moving away from it though. Email password recovery yes. But really, what does Proton's E2EE add to this? The email is still sent unencrypted across the internet. And only gets encrypted when it gets to their mailbox. It's not as if someone could easily break into gmail either. Unless they know your password but then Proton is just as vulnerable.

I just consider their "Security" window dressing to be honest. It totally ignores the gaping wide problem and fixes only a tiny pretty irrelevant part of it.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perfect is the enemy of good. The EU has it's flaws, but if you can't see the difference between the US privacy climate and the EU privacy climate then you need a reality check.

Yup, in the USA you can still have VPN server that is not storing logs, something that is simply illegal in European Union countries. In the USA you can purchase prepaid SIM card in Wallmart with cash, put it in your phone and you have anonymous phone number, again, this is illegal in Europe in a typical stupid European way, as any criminal who needs an anonymous card would pull in to the retailer some drunk or homel…

True regarding logs.

False regarding SIM cards.

European.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#137
post #29

The biggest elephants in the room are cloud providers, but I didn't find an easy alternative yet (hetzner, ovhcloud). ATM, the idea to the business is sold, that data resides somewhere near by in a datacenter, EU proximity. However, the EU businesses are realising that, well, whole region is at a mercy of one person.

Problem with Hetzner is they don't have the self hosted DCs in pacific region yet. They have Singapore for their PaaS solution, but if you want those cheap second hand servers then have to be in EU

What is their PaaS solution? Hetzner Cloud is IaaS.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#138
post #106

> Wrapping up - Migrating away from US cloud services was easier than I expected. This is absolutely not the main takeaway and I find it difficult to see how he could write this - there are gaping holes. Git repos (it's too difficult). NPM (ditto). Startpage uses Google's index. The only meaningful switch he mentions is Proton, but as other comments have pointed out they have vendor lock-in problems. The real takeawa…

he mentioned also Quad9 - Cloudflare DNS replacement. I didn't know about and will probably switch to it. My other picks: SEARCH: qwant (france) LLM: mistral (france), librechat.ai, openwebui VPN: mullvad (sweden), protonVPN (swiss) AUTH: OpenID (sadly seems like not many sevices implement it) CLOUD: Hetzner (germany), OVHCloud (france) MAPS: here wego, openstreetmap EMAIL: protonMail (swiss), fastmail (australia) DN…

Fastmail is based in Australia [1], not Germany.

[1]: https://www.fastmail.com/company/about/

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#139

> Wrapping up - Migrating away from US cloud services was easier than I expected. This is absolutely not the main takeaway and I find it difficult to see how he could write this - there are gaping holes. Git repos (it's too difficult). NPM (ditto). Startpage uses Google's index. The only meaningful switch he mentions is Proton, but as other comments have pointed out they have vendor lock-in problems. The real takeawa…

I expected it to be much harder to move away from these services I heavily relied on like Microsoft 365. Before I started migrating it figured I was so entangled in their web, that switching to an alternative would be a tremendous task. After actually migrating these services, I managed to migrate 90% within a few hours per service. This is nowhere near the amount of effort I expected it needed. Because of that, I'm…

Git has full name and email in all commits, fyi.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#140

Maybe one really needs 'the cloud' (whatever that is) or the accompanying services, I don't know, but I do know that good old webhosting is still around. At least here in The Netherlands. Good for email, good for websites and webapps, good for data storage. There are enough options to choose from the decentralized menu of hosting offerings. Most are cheap enough also, but watch out for the slightly bigger webhosting…

The cloud, speaking for small-to-medium companies, is two things; a directory server with file storage, email, and an attached suite of productivity tools (e.g. Microsoft 365 or Google Workspace), and virtual, distributed infrastructure (e.g. AWS, Google Cloud, or Azure).

You can build the offerings commonly sold as "cloud" yourself, but it requires a ludicrously unreasonable amount of engineering work to reinvent the wheel and end up with a shitty solution that gets your users frustrated, guaranteed.

We need a European contender (or multiple!) that can actually compete in one or both of these disciplines. There is going to be a huge market for this very soon.

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