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Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

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Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the escalation seen in the Ukrainian Maidan, went from some heavy handed policing to non-lethal rounds (eg: teargas / beanbags) to BBs to snipers and live firing on crowds.

Yes, although that was exceptionally irrational, to the point where I don't really feel I understand the events.

Unfortunately, it worked in Belarus.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware that these LRAD systems have been used against US citizens, aren't you?

Police also regularly use tear gas against US citizens. These are weapons that would violate the Geneva convention, but we're okay with them to disperse a crowd.

Generally if you do it to your own people the world is fine with.. just about anything.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#134
post #16

I wonder how the engineers and scientists who contributed to that less-lethal weapon feel about it.

Probably enjoyed working on cool sci-fi shit. Invisible weapons are pretty cool -- though I think conceptually the heat ray class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System?useskin=v...) is cooler than the LRAD class. How they're used or should be used? An unimportant question in the face of coolness. Then there's just basic pride in good engineering or craftsmanship that can help spark joy in whatever one is working on, from weapons to some hairy enterprise legacy ball of mud you're slowly making improvements to. A silly quote I've always liked, from Nathaniel Borenstein: "It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would ever consent to write a "DestroyBaghdad" procedure. Basic professional ethics would instead require him to write a "DestroyCity" procedure, to which "Baghdad" could be given as a parameter."

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#135
post #16

I wonder how the engineers and scientists who contributed to that less-lethal weapon feel about it.

[flagged]

(Just to be clear, I think weapons in general can be used for good, as well as for bad.)

From your perspective, can you guess how you'd feel building a less-lethal weapons system like is the subject of this post, given what you think the typical uses of it would be?

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware that these LRAD systems have been used against US citizens, aren't you?

Police also regularly use tear gas against US citizens. These are weapons that would violate the Geneva convention, but we're okay with them to disperse a crowd.

Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) (a follow-on to the 1925 "Geneva Convention") allows for the use of riot control agents (like tear gas) for law enforcement purposes.

https://www.opcw.org/our-work/what-chemical-weapon

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#137
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police also regularly use tear gas against US citizens. These are weapons that would violate the Geneva convention, but we're okay with them to disperse a crowd.

The Geneva Convention bans all chemical weapons. Part of the rationale for a total ban is to avoid escalating to more dangerous chemical agents. Helpful r/AskHistorians thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/gwtj89/the_c...

> Part of the rationale for a total ban is to avoid escalating to more dangerous chemical agents

Chemical weapons are tactically useless for modern militaries [1]. You’re pretty much always better off pounding with high explosives.

And there isn’t a known path to escalation potential. If there were, everyone would be developing it.

[1] https://acoup.blog/2020/03/20/collections-why-dont-we-use-ch...

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are they against the Geneva convention because of the direct effects, or because in a war you’d then proceed to kill everyone while they’re coughing?

Both? Indiscriminate chemical weapons is the issue, not the intent. Otherwise wouldn't all weapons be illegal?

Some weapons are intrinsically forbidden because of their effects on individuals: soft-point bullets for instance. These are as discriminate as you want them to be, but are nonetheless prohibited in conflicts. Thus it's not just indiscriminate weapons that are banned by international agreement!

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#140
post #125
post #16

I wonder how the engineers and scientists who contributed to that less-lethal weapon feel about it.

This has to be about people who pushes the button. Not about the people who invents the technology. Otherwise you might want to stop all the kitchen knifes production, cause people occasionally use those to kill each other.

No there is a very clear difference of responsibility between creating an instrument that can be turned towards harm and one that is designed to cause it. Someone designed, engineered, and built these tools knowing this is what they were to be used for.
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