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Intel appoints Lip-Bu Tan as its CEO

reuters.com

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Re: Intel appoints Lip-Bu Tan as its CEO

#131

Post by bee_rider »

freejazz wrote: post #130
ethbr1 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (there’s no particular reason to believe Intel and the US government are very similar) Large monopolies with limited market pressure to innovate?

My shirt today is red. Do you know what else is red? Those buses in London!

Hah. Not even, though. Redness is a characteristic that means the same thing in the context of your shirt and a bus. Because there isn’t generally a competitive market for the service of “being governed” monopoly doesn’t even make sense there.

It is more like saying strawberries and ethyl methylphenylglycidate are both red tasting.

Re: Intel appoints Lip-Bu Tan as its CEO

#132

Post by freejazz »

bee_rider wrote: post #131
freejazz wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My shirt today is red. Do you know what else is red? Those buses in London!

Hah. Not even, though. Redness is a characteristic that means the same thing in the context of your shirt and a bus. Because there isn’t generally a competitive market for the service of “being governed” monopoly doesn’t even make sense there. It is more like saying strawberries and ethyl methylphenylglycidate are both red tasting.

Fair point. Is that what they put in Code Red? Because that drink tastes damn red.

Re: Intel appoints Lip-Bu Tan as its CEO

#133

Post by bee_rider »

freejazz wrote: post #132
bee_rider wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah. Not even, though. Redness is a characteristic that means the same thing in the context of your shirt and a bus. Because there isn’t generally a competitive market for the service of “being governed” monopoly doesn’t even make sense there. It is more like saying strawberries and ethyl methylphenylglycidate are both red tasting.

Fair point. Is that what they put in Code Red? Because that drink tastes damn red.

I dunno it was the first thing I came across for artificial strawberry flavor, haha.

Re: Intel appoints Lip-Bu Tan as its CEO

#134

Post by consteval »

rowanG077 wrote: post #119
consteval wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Letting people go should not meaningfully decrease the efficacy of these institutions in the long term. I disagree, of course it will meaningfully decrease the efficacy. The purpose of DOGE is to dismantle organizations which provide accountability for the private sector and the executive, including organizations which literally focus on optimizing processes. Of course, the same amount of stuff needs to get done. T…

> The purpose of DOGE is to dismantle organizations which provide accountability for the private sector and the executive, including organizations which literally focus on optimizing processes. If you working from a bad faith PoV like this it really makes no sense to talk about it. The mechanism is pretty obvious to me. The pareto principle is well studied. Like a government agency has no self cleaning mechanism like…

> Like a government agency has no self cleaning mechanism like a cooperation has.

What? No.

1. Unlike the private sector, the public sector is built on hard budgets, not speculation. They don’t balloon up like your typical money-burning tech company.

2. They can, and do, fire people for performance. No idea where the myth that they can’t do that came from.

3. They run probationary periods just like the private sector to make firing easier and, in fact, their probationary periods are much longer!

4. There are inspectors and agencies directly responsible for optimization.

Re: Intel appoints Lip-Bu Tan as its CEO

#135

Post by YetAnotherNick »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #128
brewdad wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His problem was that he had a vision, possibly the correct one, with absolutely no clue how to execute it. That is unforgivable in a CEO.

Sure he knew how to get there: build SOTA fabs that can compete with TSMC. The problem was that it was going to cost $100B and take 10 years. The board wasn't patient enough and wanted a quick fix. There is no quick fix.

They already spent 10 years and probably $100b. 14nm with Broadwell was launched in 2014 and they never recovered from there. They just launched one node process in 2019 in full capacity after that and by that time it was too outdated.

There is no way to justify that a market leader would fall this bad this fast and couldn't recover and loose billions in process, except something was terribly wrong.

Re: Intel appoints Lip-Bu Tan as its CEO

#136

Post by rstuart4133 »

missedthecue wrote: post #49
beambot wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and I'm sure all those public shareholders are mighty unhappy with the current board's stewardship.

Unfortunately, index funds and mutual funds own about 68% of the Intel, with Vanguard retirement funds being the biggest. These passive custodian investor companies just vote along with the board's recommendation rather than making opinionated or activist decisions.

> These passive custodian investor companies just vote along with the board's recommendation rather than making opinionated or activist decisions.

I don't know where you get that idea from. They own so many shares they have direct control over who gets appointed to the board, and unlike a small investor when these guys walk away with their money it hurts. I often see the news reports of them flexing their muscles in the board room.

It's true they probably don't have much to say about bets like 18A or corporate culture. But they will almost certainly be involved on the decision on if or when Intel will be split up - if only because these investors decide which, if any of the new entities they are prepared to fund.

Re: Intel appoints Lip-Bu Tan as its CEO

#137

Post by rowanG077 »

consteval wrote: post #134
rowanG077 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The purpose of DOGE is to dismantle organizations which provide accountability for the private sector and the executive, including organizations which literally focus on optimizing processes. If you working from a bad faith PoV like this it really makes no sense to talk about it. The mechanism is pretty obvious to me. The pareto principle is well studied. Like a government agency has no self cleaning mechanism like…

> Like a government agency has no self cleaning mechanism like a cooperation has. What? No. 1. Unlike the private sector, the public sector is built on hard budgets, not speculation. They don’t balloon up like your typical money-burning tech company. 2. They can, and do, fire people for performance. No idea where the myth that they can’t do that came from. 3. They run probationary periods just like the private sector…

1. That is simply a budget cap. There is still no pressure to optimize. It's like if I tell this function has to run in 10 seconds. You will make it run in 9.9 seconds and stop there. Maybe the function could run in 9.0 seconds, 5.3 seconds or even one second. Forcing continuous optimization is what is needed. Not a hard budget cap.

2. Firing individual people is obviously not what this is about. It's about department wide processes.

3. Oke, see my prior point.

4. Well yeah now there is, it's called the department of government efficiency.

Re: Intel appoints Lip-Bu Tan as its CEO

#138

Post by falcor84 »

anonym29 wrote: post #122
falcor84 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we're just different, but I would be extremely offended by a suggestion that I fast for ramadan, just as I would if I were asked to eat kosher for a month, or to go on a vegan diet for a month, or even just to watch his favorite cooking show for a month. Whether they were suggestions, requests or demands, I find these to be unreasonable intrusions of the company into people's private lives. Asking people to pra…

Would you be more offended by your employer contacting you during your vacation to ask you to work, or is that less offensive to you because it's less unrelated to work? Is the company asking you to go to a morale event where free food is being served less offensive? Perhaps a better way to ask what I'm trying to get at... if asking (not demanding) you to try fasting is too intrusive into your personal life, what are…

I appreciate your curiosity and the way you phrased your point.

You hit the nail on the head with:

> Is it that it's the company's leadership asking, rather than your coworker?

I'm a fan of voluntarism too, but don't believe that a company leader can just "ask" something. Same as it is with sexual advances, when a boss asks something from their employees, it automatically implies that doing so will be beneficial to their position in the company, even if they didn't intend it.

As for your examples, I'd generally be ok with requests that can in some way be justified by the typical person as good for the company (e.g offsite team-building), but would draw the line at requests that go beyond that.

Re: Intel appoints Lip-Bu Tan as its CEO

#139

Post by fc417fc802 »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #135
UncleOxidant wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure he knew how to get there: build SOTA fabs that can compete with TSMC. The problem was that it was going to cost $100B and take 10 years. The board wasn't patient enough and wanted a quick fix. There is no quick fix.

They already spent 10 years and probably $100b. 14nm with Broadwell was launched in 2014 and they never recovered from there. They just launched one node process in 2019 in full capacity after that and by that time it was too outdated. There is no way to justify that a market leader would fall this bad this fast and couldn't recover and loose billions in process, except something was terribly wrong.

> fall this bad this fast

That's just how fabs are. Yeah, something went terribly wrong. That much is obvious.

Regardless of who was picked as CEO getting back to the cutting edge was always going to be horrendously expensive and take on the order of a decade. There was never a magical unicorn CEO that could avoid that.

The only obvious (at least to me) alternative is to sell off the foundry business. But someone is going to be running a cutting edge process at scale in the US. The federal government will presumably see to that.

Re: Intel appoints Lip-Bu Tan as its CEO

#140

Post by indolering »

bsdice wrote: post #69
t1234s wrote: post #65

Does Intel have any path to its stock price going 10x?

A few years after the first battle over Taiwan has taken place. There has been news about Broadcom and NVidia testing their designs on Intel process nodes. Which is arguably worse in at least two respects, they are behind TSMC in density and also proprietary software tooling at Intel. After the 13000/14000 CPU chip death issues possibly also in regard to reliability. But they still want to do it. Although this page i…

> A few years after the first battle over Taiwan has taken place.

Awful but true.

> There has been news about Broadcom and NVidia testing their designs on Intel process nodes.

Links? It makes sense to invest in second and third sources, even if it does mean handing money to a competitor. Especially given the instability of the global community right now.

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