Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks • Hacker News Board

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#131

Post by ty6853 » Thu, Mar 06, 2025, 4:26 PM UTC

pnemonic wrote: post #128

ty6853 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the government, and arguably global economy, is under threat and you're doing what exactly with these guns? What do you suggest is done with the guns about that? You want us to kill over disagreement on economic policy?

Global economics has the power to kill far more people than small arms ever could. We suggest you put your money where your exceptionally large mouths are.

I understand there are arguments for it. I can even understand where they are coming from. What is interesting is many of these anti 2A sorts unknowingly speak their murderous intent out loud. They are that which they hate.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#132

Post by ty6853 » Thu, Mar 06, 2025, 4:28 PM UTC

psunavy03 wrote: post #123

ty6853 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please chime in on how soldiers aren't subject to the same psychological influences of other humans, while charming us on your .mil street cred. I don't need to be a navy seal to understand this, veterans were among those charged in say the Whitmer plot.

No one is denying there are extremists in the military. There are also street gang members in the military. Saying they are a significant portion of the population is a much different argument than saying there is a fringe population where there are standing orders to expel them if found.

And yet instead militias are targeted, while disproportionately sparing say the army. It's not the pursuit of justice and equal 'protection' of law, it's a calculated targeting to induce crime to lock away unwanted people over non criminal disagreements.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#133

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft » Thu, Mar 06, 2025, 4:29 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #111

thinkingemote wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also worth pointing out that this pattern is kind of common. As here, these agents are often at the very top. Almost all Organisations of Interest will be compromised at the leadership level. It's something most grass roots activists don't feel intuitively at all. They look for spies among their own level but it's almost always going to be the organisers, the helpers, the ones with the van, the one that can prin…

I've often wondered if there is research on effective ways of preventing this - of compromise-proofing an institution.

If there were such methods, and if these methods were used to compromise-proof an institution, then that institution would see the hammer drop down on them from above like nothing anyone (bystanders, pundits, the world) has ever seen before. Everyone scooped up with black headbags on, rendered to black ops sites.

Because, at that point, the government has exactly one play left... to make everyone so afraid of compromise-proofing that no one bothers. This isn't unprecedented, by the way. Silk Road and Dread Pirate Roberts was a similar situation, and they used illegal NSA surveillance to unmask him and parallel construction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction) to prosecute.

When they have a monopoly on violence and trillion dollar budgets, you're going to lose even if you have superior tactics.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#134

Post by Hasz » Thu, Mar 06, 2025, 4:31 PM UTC

squigz wrote: post #121

showerst wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there's certainly more overlap than a random group of people, in discussions like these I think even the most anti-gun people recognize that the broader "I like guns because guns are fun" community isn't really the focus in terms of domestic terrorism or crazy race war stuff. Particularly on youtube there's this huge Forgotten Weapons, Garand Thumb, DemolitionRanch etc style sphere that stays relatively apoliti…

The problem is it's difficult to have one without the other. If the cost of reducing gun violence is that hobbyists can't collect guns... that's a cost I think society can stomach. I'm not blaming hobbyists for gun violence or anything, obviously, but these ideas are not unconnected.

We know where gun violence comes from, and it's not dudes collecting vintage rifle prototypes from Yugoslavia.

about 2/3 of gun deaths in 2022 are suicides. Of homicides, it's mostly young black men. Suicide rates are highest for old white men.

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/sites/default/files/2024-09/202...

We are failing specific people at specific stages of their lives by not offering them opportunity and hope for the future, resulting in gun violence and suicide. Even if you could round up all the guns, the hopelessness and violence will remain without some structural changes.

If you're a US citizen, gun control is an infringement on your civil rights and a weak topical solution for systematic flaws.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#135

Post by 875368945 » Thu, Mar 06, 2025, 4:34 PM UTC

red-iron-pine wrote: post #112

Ancapistani wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What the louder militia members and gun nuts are up to is no secret. For that matter, I'd include myself in the latter group. I'm reasonably vocal here - usually in an attempt to simply share my perspective, as it's not of the prevailing position in this community. Sure, "the gun nuts" have a different agenda than the larger community. We're gun nuts because that's important to us. I can't think of anything that I'…

> Lots of things that could be easily taken out of context, sure, and a fair number of things that are just plain inappropriate - but you could say the same for any community. What kind of ridiculous copium is this? i'm sure the quilting community says all sorts of terrible things that could be taken out of context. the difference is they don't have a long history of gun violence. ain't no one showed up and killed 20…

Personally, I’m using my guns to teach my trans friends how to shoot. The government (and their supporters) are increasingly vocal in their dehumanization and threats against trans people, and many (of my friends at least) are looking for protection.

What else would you have me do with my guns? (I’m also helping my non-trans friends get into shooting too.)

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#136

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft » Thu, Mar 06, 2025, 4:35 PM UTC

squigz wrote: post #121

showerst wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there's certainly more overlap than a random group of people, in discussions like these I think even the most anti-gun people recognize that the broader "I like guns because guns are fun" community isn't really the focus in terms of domestic terrorism or crazy race war stuff. Particularly on youtube there's this huge Forgotten Weapons, Garand Thumb, DemolitionRanch etc style sphere that stays relatively apoliti…

The problem is it's difficult to have one without the other. If the cost of reducing gun violence is that hobbyists can't collect guns... that's a cost I think society can stomach. I'm not blaming hobbyists for gun violence or anything, obviously, but these ideas are not unconnected.

>that's a cost I think society can stomach.

Society believes it can stomach that cost because it is largely irrational, incapable of long-term or worst-case thinking, and utterly oblivious to ground-state reality.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#137

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft » Thu, Mar 06, 2025, 4:40 PM UTC

red-iron-pine wrote: post #112

Ancapistani wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What the louder militia members and gun nuts are up to is no secret. For that matter, I'd include myself in the latter group. I'm reasonably vocal here - usually in an attempt to simply share my perspective, as it's not of the prevailing position in this community. Sure, "the gun nuts" have a different agenda than the larger community. We're gun nuts because that's important to us. I can't think of anything that I'…

> Lots of things that could be easily taken out of context, sure, and a fair number of things that are just plain inappropriate - but you could say the same for any community. What kind of ridiculous copium is this? i'm sure the quilting community says all sorts of terrible things that could be taken out of context. the difference is they don't have a long history of gun violence. ain't no one showed up and killed 20…

>ain't no one showed up and killed 20 elementary kids with knitting needles.

Plainly false. Though people who advocate gun control never pay attention, there have been many high-profile mass murders/attacks where people did attack with knives/swords/machetes, and these have comparable body counts.

The UK is way ahead of you too, by the way. They've started to implement knife control, including orders for people to bring in kitchen knives to have the tips blunted.

>and what is your 2nd amendment right doing now? the government, and arguably global economy, is under threat a

And that government is perceived to be on the side of the gun rights proponents. The people complaining are largely those who have, in the past, eschewed gun ownership.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#138

Post by 875368945 » Thu, Mar 06, 2025, 4:48 PM UTC

squigz wrote: post #121

showerst wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there's certainly more overlap than a random group of people, in discussions like these I think even the most anti-gun people recognize that the broader "I like guns because guns are fun" community isn't really the focus in terms of domestic terrorism or crazy race war stuff. Particularly on youtube there's this huge Forgotten Weapons, Garand Thumb, DemolitionRanch etc style sphere that stays relatively apoliti…

The problem is it's difficult to have one without the other. If the cost of reducing gun violence is that hobbyists can't collect guns... that's a cost I think society can stomach. I'm not blaming hobbyists for gun violence or anything, obviously, but these ideas are not unconnected.

I think the issue is less stopping gun collectors. The issue is preventing self-defense. If there were a magic weapon which can only be used to defend yourself, and not for offensive purposes, then sure! Ban guns! But in today’s world, a firearm is the most effective self-defense tool (tho owning a gun isn’t going to magically make you safer).

I grew up supporting gun control, but I think that’s because of my background. I grew up trusting the police, not only to protect me from any would-be ne'er-do-wells, but also that I wouldn’t be antagonized by the state.

If you live in a rural area, where the response time for the local sheriff is half an hour, then having a gun can be vital. Or if you live in an area where the cops simply won’t show up when called.

I don’t want to have to fully rely on the state for my personal safety, and in particular this current government.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#139

Post by gadders » Thu, Mar 06, 2025, 4:54 PM UTC

squigz wrote: post #121

showerst wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there's certainly more overlap than a random group of people, in discussions like these I think even the most anti-gun people recognize that the broader "I like guns because guns are fun" community isn't really the focus in terms of domestic terrorism or crazy race war stuff. Particularly on youtube there's this huge Forgotten Weapons, Garand Thumb, DemolitionRanch etc style sphere that stays relatively apoliti…

The problem is it's difficult to have one without the other. If the cost of reducing gun violence is that hobbyists can't collect guns... that's a cost I think society can stomach. I'm not blaming hobbyists for gun violence or anything, obviously, but these ideas are not unconnected.

Do you think most gun violence is done by law-abiding hobbyists that collect guns, or gang members in the inner cities?

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#140

Post by asa400 » Thu, Mar 06, 2025, 4:59 PM UTC

lurk2 wrote: post #119

noneeeed wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been struck by how often it is really quite senior people within criminal/terrorist organisations are the ones that get turned by the various agencies. In the UK, there was an informant for MI5 in the IRA for years codenamed Steaknife. It turned out he was the head of IRA internal security, it was his job to hunt moles. He was the perfect agent. I seem to remember a story of a mafia don who turned out to be an i…

They are the highest value targets who coordinate the group's activities. Most will have done something at some point that could land them in prison for a long time; this is how they are typically turned. The ones that haven't done anything the feds can feasibly threaten them with often get bribed, which is where things can get really messy because you end up with policing organizations essentially permitting organiz…

I would go so far as to say it quite literally is a small business trying to harden their systems against a state actor, only the systems here are organizational systems.