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Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

matrix.org

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Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#131

Post by genewitch »

dzaima wrote: post #75
danielspace23 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XMPP in its current state is a mess. The bare protocol is minimal, the things which actually make the thing usable are just a bunch of extensions, barely glued onto the thing, which means that there are clients that implement different features, and you never know if whatever you send will be supported by the receiver (including encryption). There are a gazillion clients for Android, mostly forks of Conversations imp…

Matrix isn't particularly better though; its main spec does "have" a bunch of things, sure, but they're still very bodged together (threads are replies but with a tag of "no, this is actually a thread"; and for backwards-compatibility clients are "supposed to" understand a non-marked-as-thread reply as being in the thread, but the spec doesn't facilitate any way to consistently reason about such replies (i.e. they're…

Threads are an anti-feature to me. The only time I found them remotely useful is when I was doing an AI bot integration into the Matrix channel and it was just me and the bot.

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#132

Post by genewitch »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #60
amatecha wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XMPP isn't dead, but think what you like. More and more people have been adopting it. "experimental, broken", that's not really how I describe software that's been in use since 2004 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gajim / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin_(software) ), 2014 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversations_(software) ) etc. If you want to describe something as experimental or broken just take a look a…

As I said - every single of my chat-app-militant contacts has migrated from XMPP (which they pushed early and aggressively) to Matrix, which includes groups like hacker spaces etc. (at least the ones that didn't just give up and migrate to closed solutions). I literally have no single person to talk to on XMPP. The software names you mention all trigger flashbacks of horrible experiences, with my last experience even…

Hey man, GNU Social still exists toooooo

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#133

Post by dzaima »

genewitch wrote: post #131
dzaima wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matrix isn't particularly better though; its main spec does "have" a bunch of things, sure, but they're still very bodged together (threads are replies but with a tag of "no, this is actually a thread"; and for backwards-compatibility clients are "supposed to" understand a non-marked-as-thread reply as being in the thread, but the spec doesn't facilitate any way to consistently reason about such replies (i.e. they're…

Threads are an anti-feature to me. The only time I found them remotely useful is when I was doing an AI bot integration into the Matrix channel and it was just me and the bot.

I don't imagine using them much either even if they were feasible to use (I have the extra trouble of being primarily in a community that's bridged to discord, but the bridge doesn't bridge threads), but I've seen them used meaningfully in other discords for tangential/off-topic discussions.

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#134

Post by ajdude »

ensignavenger wrote: post #14

I love the concept behind the Matrix protocol, but I have zero faith in the Matrix Foundations ability to execute. Folks have been asking for financial tranparency for years now ( https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec/issues/571#issueco... ). And all that we get are posts like this complainging about not having enough money and threatening to shut things down, repeatedly. Maybe if they were more open and transpar…

A breakdown was actually just posted on that thread an hour ago:

    And in terms of numbers, out of the $1.2M annual costs we mention there, here's the rough breakdown:
    * $360K/yr – Trust & Safety
    * $250K/yr – Other folks, covering program management, legal, compliance, finance, IT, security, dev
    * $240K/yr – Server and SRE
    * $170K/yr – My salary, covering fundraising, open governance, community relations, biz ops, and people mgmt
    * $150K/yr – Matrix Conf + other events
    * $30K/yr – Assorted expenses like travel, lodging, productivity infra

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#135

Post by mrusme »

amatecha wrote: post #94
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said - every single of my chat-app-militant contacts has migrated from XMPP (which they pushed early and aggressively) to Matrix, which includes groups like hacker spaces etc. (at least the ones that didn't just give up and migrate to closed solutions). I literally have no single person to talk to on XMPP. The software names you mention all trigger flashbacks of horrible experiences, with my last experience even…

OMEMO is the only E2EE standard to use now (I mean, barring occasional outliers, but OMEMO is the norm). That's cool, I'm talking to people on XMPP every day with people who have zero intention of moving unless something better (by their definition) comes along. XMPP seems to be gaining popularity as one of the last possible options for a genuinely decentralized encrypted chat protocol that isn't beholden to a singul…

I'm a fan and active user of XMPP. However, it unfortunately is true that encryption is a can of worms. OMEMO should be the standard, yet there is fragmentation in terms of the specific OMEMO spec version that clients use. Not even the most prominent clients keep up with the latest spec, as can be seen here [1]. One of the issues is, that everything prior to 0.4.0 uses AES-128-GCM, instead of the standard that is used by other platforms (eg Signal), that is AES-256-CBC with HMAC-SHA-256. In plain English this means that most mainstream XMPP clients do not offer encryption at a level that can and should be expected these days.

[1]: https://xmpp.org/extensions/#xep-0384-implementations

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#136

Post by JohnTHaller »

baobun wrote: post #61

We are ready to donate. Unfortunately, none of the options work: Only credit card or bank wire transfer are accepted. Arathorn, neiljohnson, thibaultmartin: Could you please provide an option for private and anonymous donations? Throw up a BTC address at least. (For even better exposure while keeping volatility, risk, and overhead at bay, I guess also USDT on SOL+ETH alongside XMR as stretch would be fancy. That USDT…

I think the Donate page may need a rework. Listing only Donorbox and then Other Options at the top adds unnecessary resistance. I have never heard of Donorbox, I have to click again to see what other options there are. Ok, click. There's also Patreon (which means ongoing donation in my mind) and Librepay (which I've heard of but never used... and is apparently also ongoing donations weekly/monthly/etc). Can't I just use a credit card or PayPal to make a one time donation for instance? After playing around, it seems you can but you have to click DonorBox and then change it to one time.

Having a preferred way of donating is great. But most folks who donate just want to give you money. They don't care about whatever service you're using or how much it costs you. I like you, I have some money to give you, make it as friction free as possible.

Organize it by how people want to pay (credit card, wire transfer, crypto, etc) and if they want to make it one time or recurring.

As an example assume you're a user wanting to make a one-time Euro donation via wire transfer. Ignoring the design (which is long overdue for an update) follow the path on my donation page for my open source project: https://portableapps.com/donate

May also make sense to separate out Sponsors from the Donate page since they're kinda separate groups.

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#137

Post by JohnTHaller »

Arathorn wrote: post #66
baobun wrote: post #61

We are ready to donate. Unfortunately, none of the options work: Only credit card or bank wire transfer are accepted. Arathorn, neiljohnson, thibaultmartin: Could you please provide an option for private and anonymous donations? Throw up a BTC address at least. (For even better exposure while keeping volatility, risk, and overhead at bay, I guess also USDT on SOL+ETH alongside XMR as stretch would be fancy. That USDT…

https://matrix.org/docs/older/faq/ has our BTC and ETH addresses: Bitcoin (address: 1LxowEgsquZ3UPZ68wHf8v2MDZw82dVmAE) Ethereum (address: 0xA5f9a4f9E024F6D727f7afdA9257e22329A97485) Thank you for being up for supporting - it is very much appreciated!

Please see my parallel reply to the parent about some Donate page suggestions. I think your page is getting in the way of people giving you money.

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#138

Post by Arnavion »

Arathorn wrote: post #113
RadiozRadioz wrote: post #90

I do hope they get what they need. If nothing else, I think they've chosen a solid and well-founded strategy to manage the situation - the focus areas they mentioned are more important than bridging. Maintaining bridges has always struck me as something hugely resource intensive. I applaud their stewardship. My story with moving to Matrix is similar to many others. I was enthusiastic about it, managed to persuade my…

the frustrating thing is that Element X really did fix the encryption issues. getting people to give it a second chance is hard though.

It absolutely has not. I'm looking at messages in Element X right now that don't decrypt, ie "Waiting for this message", from one user interspersed between decrypted messages from other users. Meanwhile my other two clients (app.element.io and pantalaimon) happen to be able to read all of them.

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#139

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

I was a huge matrix user, had converted "most" of my family and extended family to join matrix to be able to talk to me and it was generally a fine experience. Not great, just fine.

But.... then the government imposed a ban and I continued to use it and last year the police knocked on my door with an Armada thinking me and my family were hosting some "terrorist". My.family forced me to cut ties to matrix then and there.

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#140

Post by [deleted] »

baobun wrote: post #61

We are ready to donate. Unfortunately, none of the options work: Only credit card or bank wire transfer are accepted. Arathorn, neiljohnson, thibaultmartin: Could you please provide an option for private and anonymous donations? Throw up a BTC address at least. (For even better exposure while keeping volatility, risk, and overhead at bay, I guess also USDT on SOL+ETH alongside XMR as stretch would be fancy. That USDT…

[deleted]
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