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We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

lore.kernel.org

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Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#131

Post by thayne »

reactordev wrote: post #9

The problem is aging code sours like milk. I empathize but we need to have people take over these initiatives and refactor them into something easier the maintain. Not saying introduce a new language or anything but change how we fundamentally look at “The Kernel”. I think reducing scope and making it so hardware providers must maintain their drivers is a good start. If your toolchain doesn’t suffice, create a new to…

> create a new kernel in rust and force a paradigm shift.

And then what?

A kernel by itself isn't very useful. Even if your kernel is somehow superior in every way, you need software to target it, so to be a successful replacement for linux you basically have to be completely compatible with any software that currently runs on linux, which not only means a massive amount of work just to keep up with changes in linux, but constraints on your own design.

And then there is hardware support. If you are a fledgling project, how do you get hardware vendors to write drivers for you?

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#132

Post by __d »

mustache_kimono wrote: post #125
__d wrote: post #122

gcc vs. egcs, emacs vs xemacs, bsd vs bsd, bsd vs att, etc, etc, etc. FOSS evolves past its chokepoints by forking. So, a credible group of Rustaceans and their backers need to come up with a plan to do it. It doesn't have to be antagonistic -- it's exploratory. If it works out well, it's a lot easier to adopt once the imagined issues are resolved or evaporated. Subsystem by subsystem would be my suggestion. And just…

> FOSS evolves past its chokepoints by forking. Unless you've been already invited into the project?

Unless I’m mistaking things, there’s still multiple roadblocks?

Just because some people have invited you in doesn’t mean everyone is welcoming.

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#133

Post by michaeljx »

strstr wrote: post #124
skrtskrt wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a bug taking a year to track down is a negative indicator of the quality of project maintenance, not the person who contributed the bug, whether it's due the code itself or the tooling and testing environments available to verify such important issues.

This isn't wrong per se, but rather, it lacks concrete recommendations for what should be done differently. I would love to see Linux thoroughly and meaningfully tested. For some parts it's just... hard. (If anyone wants to get their start writing kernel code, have a crack at writing some self-tests for a component that looks complicated. The relevant maintainer will probably be excited to see literally anyone writin…

Could it be a memory related bug, which would not have existed in a memory safe language like Rust?

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#134

Post by lucianbr »

muamoe wrote: post #75
jemmyw wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but the parent has addressed this and you're just talking past them like they didn't comment. If the maintainers don't want it to happen then they need to come to an agreement that it won't happen. If they do want it to happen then they need to stop blocking it for non-technical reasons. If they can't actually decide then that's "no" or up to the project lead to enforce the decision at the risk of losing maintain…

Wow, the entitlement here is absolutely amazing. You are not entitled to any work, or explanation, or "agreement". Show me where it says maintainers owe you any of this at all.

Can you show where it says maintainers are entitled to be free from criticism on the internet?

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#135

Post by shkkmo »

skrtskrt wrote: post #110

A fundamental problem here not yet discussed directly here is how few maintainers there really are for a software project of this magnitude and importance. Further, the fact that so many of those maintainers are purely on volunteer time. Now it is certainly somewhat the fault of the maintainers themselves for turning off thousand if not tens of thousands of eager, well-intentioned wannabe contributors over the decade…

> Further, the fact that so many of those maintainers are purely on volunteer time.

Greg pointed out in that email thread that:

> over 80% of the contributions come from company-funded developers. [1]

[1] https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/2025020738-observant-rocklike-7...

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#136

Post by strstr »

michaeljx wrote: post #133
strstr wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't wrong per se, but rather, it lacks concrete recommendations for what should be done differently. I would love to see Linux thoroughly and meaningfully tested. For some parts it's just... hard. (If anyone wants to get their start writing kernel code, have a crack at writing some self-tests for a component that looks complicated. The relevant maintainer will probably be excited to see literally anyone writin…

Could it be a memory related bug, which would not have existed in a memory safe language like Rust?

You are probably saying this as a troll, but I’ll bite. I mean, sure Rust would have helped.

Technically, the borrow checker and bounds checks wouldn’t have done it here (I’m aware I’m being obtuse by not just linking the bug).

Having cleaner types and abstractions would almost certainly have solved the problem though. Normal C++ would have worked as well as Rust.

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#137

Post by milesrout »

tdb7893 wrote: post #43
milesrout wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't even originate in the US, mate.

As far as I can tell it probably is American, all the earliest mentions of it on Wikipedia are American. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_blue_line

[flagged]

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#138

Post by milesrout »

defrost wrote: post #39
milesrout wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law review articles are largely written by students. They are not authoritative. Do you think that Rowan Atkinson was dogwhistling about undemocratic, racist, bigoted police violence when he named his police sitcom "The Thin Blue Line" or do you think perhaps your dislike of the police has led to you associating negative attributes with anyone that happens to use any phrase related to the police? Where I am from, the…

> Do you think that Rowan Atkinson was ... No, but Ben Elton certainly was when he created and wrote it, even before hiring Atkinson to star in it . . . When I last spoke to him Elton didn't view the entire UK Police force with disdain but he absolutely felt it was riddled with clusters of bigoted and violent police. You can see that in his other works such as the The Young Ones and various novels.

Sorry but have you actually seen the program? There isn't a hint of any of thise feelings.

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#139

Post by milesrout »

MyOutfitIsVague wrote: post #40
milesrout wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law review articles are largely written by students. They are not authoritative. Do you think that Rowan Atkinson was dogwhistling about undemocratic, racist, bigoted police violence when he named his police sitcom "The Thin Blue Line" or do you think perhaps your dislike of the police has led to you associating negative attributes with anyone that happens to use any phrase related to the police? Where I am from, the…

I'm not a left winger, and I generally respect the police, but everybody I've met with a "thin blue line" American flag decal or sticker has been a total asshole. It's not just hatred of the police. Connotations change over time, and the general connotation of "the thin blue line" in the US at the moment is unabashed support of far-right authoritarianism.

The phrase has nothing to do with any flags used much later by US policemen. That is the whole point of the thread.

>far-right authoritarianism

Get a grip. Even if it were a reference to what you say it is, that has nothing to do with the "far right". It is stock standard centre-right (and centre-left for that matter) position in the US to support the police in principle (if not, obviously, in every action theyve ever taken). The "defund the police" types are a minority of a minority.

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#140

Post by defrost »

milesrout wrote: post #138
defrost wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think that Rowan Atkinson was ... No, but Ben Elton certainly was when he created and wrote it, even before hiring Atkinson to star in it . . . When I last spoke to him Elton didn't view the entire UK Police force with disdain but he absolutely felt it was riddled with clusters of bigoted and violent police. You can see that in his other works such as the The Young Ones and various novels.

Sorry but have you actually seen the program? There isn't a hint of any of thise feelings.

> Sorry

are you? what for?

> but have you actually seen the program?

Yes.

> There isn't a hint of any of thise feelings.

It comes some 15 years after his angriest socialist days .. and it's a well crafted comedy played for laughs. You'll recall, I trust, that it mocks the police pretty heavily.

Detective Inspector Derek Grim isn't a lovable pussycat.

Have you seen it? Did you read the credits? What made you think Rowan created the show?

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