How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed • Hacker News Board

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#131

Post by Spooky23 » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 2:43 AM UTC

crowcroft wrote: post #101

onlypassingthru wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irrelevant to whom? Toyota, Honda and Subaru all have lifelong customers and for good reason. The cars often last for 20+ years with minimal upkeep. The current crop of Chinese electric car makers are all trying to fake it until one of them makes it and the money spigot keeping them afloat will eventually get turned off at some point.[0] Good luck keeping that flashy EV running when the company goes bust. [0] https:/…

New car purchasing behaviour follows the law of double jeopardy. ie. Toyota has high repeat purchase rates because it has high market share, not because of loyal customers.

No way.

Toyota dealers are the worst - their core customer is a like a quiet Tesla fanatic.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#132

Post by lmz » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 2:44 AM UTC

killerpopiller wrote: post #74

VectorLock wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its too bad since Honda has seemed to have totally lost its luster the past decade or so. Honda was Apple to Toyota's Microsoft for a long time, now their cars are bland and undifferentiated, rather than the innovative leaders they used to be.

habe you seen the Honda e?

The Honda e which is no longer produced? https://www.motor1.com/news/700419/honda-e-production-ending...

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#133

Post by gottorf » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 2:44 AM UTC

mikeyouse wrote: post #128

lmm wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His prosecution was blatantly motivated (the CEO who replaced him has far bigger embezzleme^H^Hfinancial irregularities that no-one cares to charge him for). I doubt people would have been so eager to help him escape if he had actually broken the law rather than being charged for running a big company while foreign.

He had enriched himself to the tune of tens of millions of company dollars completely undisclosed to the firm.. he had multiple mansions, yachts, and “CEO Reserve” bank accounts that the BoD wasn’t aware of. The men who were “so eager” to help him escape were paid upwards of $1M to do so… man I’m getting tired of people justifying ludicrous amounts of graft and theft. If other people embezzle as well, send them to pr…

> If other people embezzle as well, send them to prison, but there’s no universe in which Ghosn is clean.

Well, selective justice is a form of injustice. I only have superficial knowledge of the Ghosn saga, but if what the GP alleges is true, then it's not fair to Ghosn that he's prosecuted for something that others get a pass. Of course, I take your point that it's entirely possible to be a bigcorp CEO without fraud and self-dealing.

To scale it down, lots of people drive over the speed limit, which is against the law; but only some people get pulled over and ticketed for it. Many people also observe the speed limit. In the Ghosn analogy, suppose that Japanese drivers got a pass, but foreigners didn't.

Should everyone get pulled over the instant they exceed the speed limit? Do we want to live in such a world? Is it just a matter of scale, the difference between driving a car too fast vs. stealing millions of dollars from your employer?

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#134

Post by tjpnz » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 2:44 AM UTC

gabruoy wrote: post #77

alecco wrote: post #8

Japanese carmakers are going to become irrelevant [1] unless there's a major change. But that's very unlikely due to: 1. Supply chains and key raw materials mostly controlled by China 2. Japan's demographic collapse 3. Japanese Gen Z fed up with an unwinnable rat race where they live to just pay rent and groceries It's very sad. [1] https://carnewschina.com/2025/01/13/byd-surpass-toyota-in-ja...

I don't understand what point you're trying to make with your source. A relatively new company in the Japanese market (BYD) has increased sales in its specialized niche of EVs, beating out a minor competitor that sells only one model of EV as an option to it's brand loyal customers (Toyota, BZ4X). Meanwhile, the EV market as a whole has declined significantly in Japan over the last year.

I live in Tokyo and have never seen a BYD in the wild.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#135

Post by Spooky23 » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 2:45 AM UTC

onlypassingthru wrote: post #123

crowcroft wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New car purchasing behaviour follows the law of double jeopardy. ie. Toyota has high repeat purchase rates because it has high market share, not because of loyal customers.

In my experience it has more to do with quality and affordability. If you like your Toyota Camry, you're probably going to get another Camry. Subarus are slightly different in that they have cornered a niche (snowy mountain driving) that many owners swear by.

Subaru has the snowy country people and gays down. Nissan used to have the same type of affinity with black customers - when treating alienated customers with respect is a novelty, people demonstrate loyalty.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#136

Post by matthewdgreen » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 2:46 AM UTC

VectorLock wrote: post #9

bearjaws wrote: post #2

IMO a Honda Nissan merger would have been terrible for Honda. Nissan is clearly an anchor, and acquiring it would have just dragged Honda down .

Its too bad since Honda has seemed to have totally lost its luster the past decade or so. Honda was Apple to Toyota's Microsoft for a long time, now their cars are bland and undifferentiated, rather than the innovative leaders they used to be.

I have a Prologue, which is a wonderful EV. Unfortunately it’s manufactured by GM because Honda has been asleep at the wheel regarding EVs. They need to wake up and fast.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#137

Post by gottorf » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 2:54 AM UTC

metadat wrote: post #98

kridsdale1 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile I bought a 2024 Toyota that gets 10mpg and I fucking love it.

Which 2024 Toyota gets 10mpg? For example, the formerly beefcake Landcruiser went from a beastly guzzling v8 in 2021 to a weaker v6 in 2022-2023, and now, in 2024, a weak 2.4L supercharged 4-cyl sipper. R.I.P. Landcruiser of old, you were an ultimate vehicle in your category.

If you drive a new Tundra or 4runner with a lead foot in the city, you're probably going to get 10-ish mpg. Of course, that's just talking about stock vehicles. Plenty of modifications you can do a car to make it less fuel-efficient ;-)

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#138

Post by gottorf » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 2:56 AM UTC

olyjohn wrote: post #71

r00fus wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't. You buy from a large vehicle manufacturer like Ford, Kia, etc. where they have commitment to parts delivery for the foreseeable future. Fisker was always a scam if you remember back from days of Fisker Karma.

Do the big companies really have a commitment to parts delivery anymore, or are they following the same trend? Took my friend 9 months to get a part for his C8 Corvette when it got rear ended at 5mph. Tons of other GM owners have been waiting months to nearly a year for many common parts for repairs. Selling parts doesn't make these companies money, so why should they care? As long as they're making enough to sell th…

Corvettes are niche cars, with only tens of thousands sold a year. Plus, I don't know when your friend got in that fender bender, but post-Covid supply chain issues meant that anybody in any newer car (with lots of electronics) who got in an accident in the past few years waited a while for parts.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#139

Post by gottorf » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 2:58 AM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #32

formerly_proven wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's one graph that basically predicts which countries are going to fail and which are going to prevail. It's the graph that shows how many people in the "doing things" age bracket a country has. Compare these: (germany) https://population.un.org/wpp/graphs?loc=276&type=Probabilis... (alternatively, Europe as a whole) https://population.un.org/wpp/graphs?loc=908&type=Probabilis... (Japan) https://population.un.org…

What happens when a country fails?

South Africa is a good example of a country that is currently in that trajectory.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#140

Post by crowcroft » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 3:00 AM UTC

protocolture wrote: post #119

crowcroft wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New car purchasing behaviour follows the law of double jeopardy. ie. Toyota has high repeat purchase rates because it has high market share, not because of loyal customers.

At least until the last 10 years people would try and sell Toyota on safety and reliability. People who wanted to extract every cent out of the cars life would get a toyota because it would legit go the distance without failure. Dealer told me that it doesnt hold true anymore due to electronics. But old corollas are still legendarily reliable first cars for teenagers. And I recall the used market for old hiluxes is b…

Second hard markets for second hand cars a little bit different, reliable cars end up having higher loyalty through selection bias since they simply exist longer though.

Toyota doesn't really make money on a Hilux after the first sale though.