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JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#131

Post by nobleach »

brap wrote: post #112

>With Fleet you can collaborate on code in real time Genuine question - Does anyone actually do this? What for? I have been writing code for about 25 years and not once did I wish for someone else to start editing the same files I’m editing in real time. Yet, this seems like a huge selling point for some of these editors.

I've used it a total of 2 times since I first saw the ability in Atom back in 2017. Once was more for the "this seems neat, let's try it" factor. The other was a legitimate, let's troubleshoot an issue while staring at the same massive screen together. It's not a bad feature, it just never stuck with my workflow - I typically hop on a Zoom call now days, someone shares their screen and pair program the old fashioned way (by yelling out stuff like one does when someone else is playing solitaire)

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#132

Post by sfn42 »

k4rli wrote: post #121
sfn42 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure IntelliJ comes with all those things? That's why I use JB products. I download them, start them up and that's it. I don't need any separate plugins, they just work perfectly out of the box.

Also probably part of the reason why they're so bloated. IDEA with just a single mid-sized project can and will take 10GB+ memory (simple java+gradle for spring or android). Out of the box it has ~100 plugins installed, most of which are useless for most people. It does work well but it's often too much and uses even more memory than vscodium.

Are you using the ram for something else? Would you prefer to have 30 out of 32gb sitting unused?

Ram is cheap, I don't see why people complain that it's being utilized. Doesn't bother me at all.

I haven't looked into it but I would assume you can disable these unnecessary plugins if you don't want them?

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#133

Post by rhubarbtree »

b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #76
solardev wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

My only problem with jetbrains UI is that it's slow. Night and day difference using even vscode, let alone vim, sublime, helix, zed, etc. I tolerate it because the functionality it brings, but I find myself actually writing code in something faster. And I don't see fleet improving on this in a meaningful way - it's basically a competitor to vscode, which I don't use for the same reasons I won't use fleet. There is a…

No complaints on my MacBook Air M2. What machine are you on?

It’s definitely not as fast to load etc as say sublime, but it’s an IDE not an editor.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#134

Post by bayindirh »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #130

Anyone wondering whether JetBrains IDEs are still worth it - absolute yes from me. VS code is a UX mess by comparison. Webstorm can be tricky to configure with Typescript but once it’s setup my goodness it’s good.

Unfortunately many new developers don't believe in powerful "power" tools anymore. They like to connect many small tools for an inferior experience and they just scoff at bigger tools for being "too complicated".

I use another big tool which is around 20 years old, and that can do everything and a ton more from a single screen at the same speed or faster, with greater integration.

Yet people don't touch it because it's old, complex, looks ugly and its UI is too dense.

Oh, I forgot, it also includes a learning curve, but the same people devote their lives to "rice" their Vim installations for months.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#135

Post by cardanome »

b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #76
solardev wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

My only problem with jetbrains UI is that it's slow. Night and day difference using even vscode, let alone vim, sublime, helix, zed, etc. I tolerate it because the functionality it brings, but I find myself actually writing code in something faster. And I don't see fleet improving on this in a meaningful way - it's basically a competitor to vscode, which I don't use for the same reasons I won't use fleet. There is a…

I actually use Jetbrains products because of the performance.

Sure indexing a new project takes a while and things will be sluggish at first but once it done, it works great. And you can easily edit huge files, like seriously huge files without problems, even the search will work smoothly. Basically the Java school of performance, absolute resources hog but scales very well.

For me vscode is intolerably slow. Sure it starts up quickly but the editing experience is absolutely infuriating. I had projects that I could not work with in vscode because a few thousand lines of code in a file were already too much for it.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#136

Post by Kuinox »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #130

Anyone wondering whether JetBrains IDEs are still worth it - absolute yes from me. VS code is a UX mess by comparison. Webstorm can be tricky to configure with Typescript but once it’s setup my goodness it’s good.

The UX of Jetbrains IDE is objectively worse, I will take Rider as example (since I use it everyday).

We can start with basic things: the contrast, in default settings in dark mode for both. In theses conditions, Rider contrast is too low for a screen you have to stare all the day, compared to VS Code.

Commonly used item are in sub menus (in vscode they are sorted by most commonly items on top), common shortcuts requires finger gymnastics.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#137

Post by nobleach »

toprerules wrote: post #36

I'm a Vim user, but I occasionally try JetBrains/VSCode to see what I'm missing out on and RustRover, CLion, Goland etc. are by far the most sluggish pieces of software I've used. I am demonstrably slower on them than using Vim with my fuzzy finder, LSP, and AI integrations. I thought Fleet might add the "magic" to something more VSCode like, but I also don't understand the long term vision.

Same. Although I haven't tried VSCode in a lot of years. I did at one time have it set up to emulate vim quite well. I used it as a daily driver for over 6 months. It would puke the bed at least once a day, reseting the theme, losing all keyboard shortcuts. I'd restart it and go on my merry way.

I keep my Kotlin LSP for NeoVim up to date but it's just not a great experience. I often have to open IntelliJ to sort out import issues. The entire Java community is built on "don't worry about knowing where your imports are coming from, your IDE will do that magic for you". So much is this the case, that the first Manning Kotlin book even said it. Because of this, I was eager to give Fleet a shot. My impression was, "you won't build an LSP because you're afraid of losing revenue... but you'll build this?" Ok. I guess that makes sense - keep people on your playground.

I sure do LOVE Kotlin as a language. But telling me I have to use your product to write it? I'd rather write Go... or even Typescript at that point. Both of those have really nice experiences in a simple text editor + LSP.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#138

Post by alde »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #130

Anyone wondering whether JetBrains IDEs are still worth it - absolute yes from me. VS code is a UX mess by comparison. Webstorm can be tricky to configure with Typescript but once it’s setup my goodness it’s good.

I have moved to VScode after being a paying Jetbrains customer for 6 years. The Jetbrains IDEs are clunky and slow, they also have plenty of bugs which remain open for years. They do offer some really powerful refactoring capabilities but I don’t miss them.

Most of my work is in Go, Rust and Typescript.

I was told by Jetbrains representatives that Fleet is now deprioritized internally, which is a pity.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#139

Post by VPenkov »

brap wrote: post #112

>With Fleet you can collaborate on code in real time Genuine question - Does anyone actually do this? What for? I have been writing code for about 25 years and not once did I wish for someone else to start editing the same files I’m editing in real time. Yet, this seems like a huge selling point for some of these editors.

I've been working for the same company for over 7 years and a lot of the shared code that other developers use is mine.

Frequently I would guide other developers to implementing something and in doing so I'd guide them down to what files to open and how to integrate it. I find this process a lot more convenient over Zoom where I can annotate with a pencil. I use that to underline blocks of code. It's a bit like you have a mouse and I have a mouse on the same screen but in a nice way.

In a workflow like that I sometimes want to write pseudo code and I would very much welcome a feature like that. Currently JetBrains has a "Code with me" plugin or something similar, but it's a bit laggy and struggles when fast typers meet. And a feature like that is good both when I take my laptop and sit next to you, and when we're on Zoom while talking.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#140

Post by muixoozie »

brap wrote: post #112

>With Fleet you can collaborate on code in real time Genuine question - Does anyone actually do this? What for? I have been writing code for about 25 years and not once did I wish for someone else to start editing the same files I’m editing in real time. Yet, this seems like a huge selling point for some of these editors.

Same. I've only used collaborative tools like Google Docs with other people exactly once in college for a group report. Naturally we procrastinated so long that we were knocking it out the day it was due. I must say it did a good job adding momentum.

Other than that never in my professional experience as a programmer. Except for open source work I was helping with. 3 of us would meet on Jitsi main contributor would sometimes share an SSH session with us in addition to streaming live coding sessions. Don't recall it actually being useful though. Dunno. It's probably one of those features that if it works well and is easy, then I might use it more.

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