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Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

routersecurity.org

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Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#131

Post by hansvm »

dp-hackernews wrote: post #51
jamestimmins wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so jealous of SF internet options. In LA I pay $105 for "supposedly" 2-300mbit, but this week I've been seeing 30. I keep looking for alternatives but haven't found any in my area.

I'm guessing a 5G mobile option is too expensive. In the UK I have a 3Mobile (Smarty unlimited data) 5G connection, using an MC801, for £20/m and I get around 1gb/100mb with it - until the tower hits a busy period, then it drops to about ~500mb/20mb

I'm in the Bay. My only reasonable options are Comcast cable and T-Mobile 5G. I had enough problems with Comcast that I went to 5G, and it's ... fine. The bill is $5/mo worse than the alternative, but there's been zero extra billing bullshit, so my actual internet expenses are slightly less than normal and don't involve 20hrs on hold every year.

The quality of service is the real problem. When the tower is busy (happens at least once a week), I usually drop to 30Mb/30Kb or so, which is little enough upload that even download-intensive applications often struggle. Plus, the jitter is terrible, latency is slightly worse on average, and 3 times so far I've had internet effectively down (spotty connections in the 1Kb/1b range) for days at a time.

Interestingly, "predictable uptime" is something I care about and is much better with T-Mobile. With Comcast I'd have at least one hang every 10 minutes or so for multiple seconds on an otherwise perfectly functional connection. With T-Mobile, it's either down for days (tower maintenance) or up (perhaps slow, but definitely up). That makes all sorts of near-real-time activities easier to coordinate.

I'd probably do it again (I don't think I actually have any options unless I get off my ass and finally sue Comcast), but it isn't a clear win.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#132

Post by jarekdziedzic »

nine_k wrote: post #114
hackernudes wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My current residential price is $65/mo for 500mbps/20mbps. Business is $120/mo for 500mbps/200mbps ($105 for first 24 months). I wouldn't mind getting a bit more sweet sweet upload. Maybe I will! There is also "gigabit pro"/"gigabit x10" where they run fiber to your house. That is $350/month for symmetric 10gbps. Lots of limitations on availability and a big install fee, though. Gotta get the other half on board with…

I always wonder what are some ways to put 10 Gbps (well, even 1 Gbps) to good use in a home setting, beside marginally lower ping times. I'm not saying such uses don't exist, I'm just curious to know.

Context: recently upgraded 40 MBit DSL to 1Gbit/500MBit fiber.

You don't need to plan for media consumption anymore. It's there when you need it. Want to play 100GB XBox game? No problem, it's here in <15 mins.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#133

Post by pyuser583 »

baobun wrote: post #108
pyuser583 wrote: post #6

The part about a cockroach colony is a bit unfair. Insects love electronics, with the heat and noise they generate. And when electronics sit in storage for a long time, the critters can crawl in from neighboring items. This is just as likely to happen with a non-ISP router. Ok, in all fairness I don’t have any stats to back up that claim. But nobody else does either. That open source router you love so much may have…

It is not unfair. The linked article is about a live cockroach colony in the package when it was delivered from their ISP. If that went unnoticed, what would you think about their supply-chain security? If you get insect-infested packages from wherever you get your electronics, you should switch suppliers. It is not normal.

I’ve learned from experience to check for insects in all packages.

Letters too.

They’re usually not there. And there more often dead than alive.

But from time to time, the critters to crawl out.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#134

Post by madduci »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #27
pyuser583 wrote: post #6

The part about a cockroach colony is a bit unfair. Insects love electronics, with the heat and noise they generate. And when electronics sit in storage for a long time, the critters can crawl in from neighboring items. This is just as likely to happen with a non-ISP router. Ok, in all fairness I don’t have any stats to back up that claim. But nobody else does either. That open source router you love so much may have…

> the critters can crawl in from neighboring items When it's shrink wrapped? And why would a used device be on the shelf next to the new router I was buying? You can argue this is "just as likely" with used devices, maybe. But if I'm buying a router it's not going to be used.

I agree with the take, unfortunately the new construction with Fiber to the home, this becomes less and less feasible, since ISPs expect to have routers with the fiber cable input as WAN port.

This is the case of Iliad in Italy.

In Germany you have FTTH installations where Telekom puts a mini Fiber Gateway in your home and an extra router dials with the credentials to access the internet. In this setup, you can use OpenWRT or other routers, rather than the Fritz!Box or the Speedport routers.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#135

Post by joecool1029 »

pyuser583 wrote: post #6

The part about a cockroach colony is a bit unfair. Insects love electronics, with the heat and noise they generate. And when electronics sit in storage for a long time, the critters can crawl in from neighboring items. This is just as likely to happen with a non-ISP router. Ok, in all fairness I don’t have any stats to back up that claim. But nobody else does either. That open source router you love so much may have…

I once got a Sprint magic box full of cockroaches (not a router but a sort of femtocell that used another tower for backhaul). Thankfully UPS threw it out in the snow and I didn't discover it for a few days so the roaches froze to death.

So yes, ISP routers and associated equip I do not recommend!

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#137

Post by pimeys »

anal_reactor wrote: post #34
OkGoDoIt wrote: post #21

I wish. I own my own modem and router, but Comcast won’t let me use them unless I pay a whole bunch of extra fees or accept a stupidly low monthly data cap. I’ve got my router downstream of theirs which is a bit annoying, especially considering their modem-router combo overheats and needs to be rebooted via unplugging power at least once a month. Sadly I have no other options here in San Francisco. My house is not wi…

In EU the second poorest country has the fastest internet. The richest country cannot provide cellular signal to all of its area.

Hey, we finally get fiber in the "richest" country. Telekom just wants to build it to our apartment, for free.

They just need a permission from our landlord, who said no way and blocked the fiber installation. We are stuck with Vodafone only...

I guess it is a better investment for them to smoke us out, renovate this place and rent it with three times more...

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#138

Post by pimeys »

newsre4der wrote: post #136

If you have a LAN cable, or fiber for WAN it can be done, but with cable modems it's not always possible to use your own device. I got a device which hasn't been updated since 2019 . :(

We have a cable connection, and the cable modem can either act as a router or a bridge. We set it up as bridge, and connected an opnSense router to it.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#139

Post by blerb795 »

stickfigure wrote: post #84
OkGoDoIt wrote: post #21

I wish. I own my own modem and router, but Comcast won’t let me use them unless I pay a whole bunch of extra fees or accept a stupidly low monthly data cap. I’ve got my router downstream of theirs which is a bit annoying, especially considering their modem-router combo overheats and needs to be rebooted via unplugging power at least once a month. Sadly I have no other options here in San Francisco. My house is not wi…

Check out MonkeyBrains? It's wireless broadband and they have LoS to many parts of SF. I used them back when I lived there (admittedly some time ago) and I had no complaints. Very much a small ISP with personalized service. It won't be fiber speeds though.

It can be fiber speeds! I had symmetric gigabit with MonkeyBrains for 3 years. It just depend on the size of their install; I was in a relatively large apartment complex so they invested more in bigger(?) antennas.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#140

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

Here in the UK, I'm using VirginMedia, but have been running my own router for ages. Unfortunately I still have to keep their router powered and connected to access the internet, but it has a "modem" mode where it just provides a dumb connection to one port and disabled WiFi.

My current router is a NanoPi r6c which is a marvelous piece of hardware - stick in an nvm drive and it's more than happy running a bunch of containers. (It's running FriendlyWRT at the moment though I think the next release of openWRT will support it).

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