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Some flag emojis aren’t working on Chrome on Windows

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Re: Some flag emojis aren’t working on Chrome on Windows

#131

Post by fsckboy »

mjr00 wrote: post #76
fsckboy wrote: post #48

yes, we know, there are historical territorial disputes all over the world. But can somebody here make a case that this is not actually/solely to appease China (over Taiwan presumably)?

If the essence of your question is "are there US-aligned/non-China countries who would have issues about certain flags", the answer is yes. Good example: the flag for the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, aka North Korea. The Western world acknowledges North Korea as a separate entity. South Korea does not and considers the North part of its territory. They wouldn't be too happy about a NK flag on their operatin…

no, (a) that's not the essence of my question and (b) I was not asking the essence of my question, I was asking literally my question.

Microsoft would not respond to North Korea by deleting all the unicode flags all over the world, so while that might get you closer to the essence of your question, there's no point in me asking my question if you are just going to dodge it.

Re: Some flag emojis aren’t working on Chrome on Windows

#132

Post by fsckboy »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #107
fsckboy wrote: post #48

yes, we know, there are historical territorial disputes all over the world. But can somebody here make a case that this is not actually/solely to appease China (over Taiwan presumably)?

Chinese denialism over Taiwan is really, really demented. It's not that they just claim Taiwan - they pretend they already own it, and stick their fingers in their ears if you point out facts on the ground. I suppose they did the same with Mongolia, until they couldn't.

ok, but that didn't answer my question.

Re: Some flag emojis aren’t working on Chrome on Windows

#133

Post by layer8 »

closewith wrote: post #78
xdennis wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, you can't use the full name, since some languages have very long names. Yes, every language has a name and you can use that. If you prefer an imprecise flag over the actual name of the language then what you're saying is that you prefer style over substance. There's always space to show the language name.

Are you seriously arguing against the use of ideograms? User interfaces without them would be unusable.

Not the GP, but ideograms/pictograms are overused, half of the time one has no idea what they are supposed to mean. That was already bad in desktop interfaces where you would at least get a tooltip when hovering the mouse over it, but that has gone out of fashion as well.

Re: Some flag emojis aren’t working on Chrome on Windows

#134

Post by lmm »

fsckboy wrote: post #48

yes, we know, there are historical territorial disputes all over the world. But can somebody here make a case that this is not actually/solely to appease China (over Taiwan presumably)?

Practically every place in the world where it's disputed whether it's part of another country or independent creates a flag issue. Do you include a Quebec flag? Northern Ireland? Somaliland? Palestine?

Re: Some flag emojis aren’t working on Chrome on Windows

#135

Post by bawolff »

Kwpolska wrote: post #116
ivanjermakov wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that there might be political concerns regarding national flag appearance, but Unicode clearly defines country codes and corresponding country names: https://unicode.org/Public/emoji/latest/emoji-sequences.txt

And United Nations defines national borders, but countries disagree with that and complain to Microsoft, not the UN. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20030822-00/?p=42...

I don't think the UN really defines borders, its more what other countries recognize and various international law rules. At most the un security counil can declare a defacto change in border should not be recognized (usually to ensure that an act of agression isnt rewarded with territory) but its actually super rare for them to do that and they have only done it a few times

Re: Some flag emojis aren’t working on Chrome on Windows

#136

Post by dixie_land »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #107
fsckboy wrote: post #48

yes, we know, there are historical territorial disputes all over the world. But can somebody here make a case that this is not actually/solely to appease China (over Taiwan presumably)?

Chinese denialism over Taiwan is really, really demented. It's not that they just claim Taiwan - they pretend they already own it, and stick their fingers in their ears if you point out facts on the ground. I suppose they did the same with Mongolia, until they couldn't.

Funny you mentioned Mongolia. Republic of China (Taiwan) still recognize it as part of its territory (together with mainland China).

It is the communist that ceded a lot of territory to the Soviet Union and the puppet state of Mongolia to appease the USSR by having a buffer between it and china

Re: Some flag emojis aren’t working on Chrome on Windows

#137

Post by bawolff »

troad wrote: post #125
scrollaway wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re saying this on HN, where plenty of people work on software affecting tens of millions of people. You wanna leave your phone number and explain your “well I ain’t offended” strategy to the next PM who’ll ask you about their users in Taiwan? The Russian speakers in Ukraine who saw their homes demolished by those who brandish the flag you’re not offended by? Maybe I should just invite you to my country of Belgium…

I had initially posted a joke reply to this, but I'll post a serious one: I care a lot more about getting necessary services to elderly, semi-literate Russian-speaking babushkas fleeing Ukraine, by giving them an obvious indicator (on e.g. a name tag) that someone can speak to them, help them, then I care about your completely absurd, concocted 'well akshuallys'.

Guess the Crimean Tatar speakers just get screwed?

Re: Some flag emojis aren’t working on Chrome on Windows

#138

Post by mjr00 »

fsckboy wrote: post #131
mjr00 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the essence of your question is "are there US-aligned/non-China countries who would have issues about certain flags", the answer is yes. Good example: the flag for the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, aka North Korea. The Western world acknowledges North Korea as a separate entity. South Korea does not and considers the North part of its territory. They wouldn't be too happy about a NK flag on their operatin…

no, (a) that's not the essence of my question and (b) I was not asking the essence of my question, I was asking literally my question. Microsoft would not respond to North Korea by deleting all the unicode flags all over the world, so while that might get you closer to the essence of your question, there's no point in me asking my question if you are just going to dodge it.

Your question was

> can somebody here make a case that this is not actually/solely to appease China (over Taiwan presumably)?

I gave one (of many) examples where this would be relevant for a country other than China. If you don't think South Korea is politically important enough to matter, then use the Israel/Palestinian flag situation as something that certainly is.

Or more simply: no, this is not just because of China and Taiwan.

Re: Some flag emojis aren’t working on Chrome on Windows

#139

Post by troad »

bawolff wrote: post #137
troad wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had initially posted a joke reply to this, but I'll post a serious one: I care a lot more about getting necessary services to elderly, semi-literate Russian-speaking babushkas fleeing Ukraine, by giving them an obvious indicator (on e.g. a name tag) that someone can speak to them, help them, then I care about your completely absurd, concocted 'well akshuallys'.

Guess the Crimean Tatar speakers just get screwed?

Yes, sadly, by Stalin and Putin, not by the choice of language symbols.

Crimean Tartars, by the way, are a great example of a people that have their own flag, despite that flag not being the official flag of any independent nation-state. If someone is a speaker of Crimean Tartar, and working with Ukrainian refugees, they should add that flag to their name tag too.

Re: Some flag emojis aren’t working on Chrome on Windows

#140

Post by fsckboy »

lmm wrote: post #134
fsckboy wrote: post #48

yes, we know, there are historical territorial disputes all over the world. But can somebody here make a case that this is not actually/solely to appease China (over Taiwan presumably)?

Practically every place in the world where it's disputed whether it's part of another country or independent creates a flag issue. Do you include a Quebec flag? Northern Ireland? Somaliland? Palestine?

what I asked was to convince me that this is not about China.

you have failed to convince me that this is about quebec, somalililand or palestine, those are absurd notions, so you have failed to convince me that this is not about china.

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