Jevons paradox

Post by fragmede » Wed, Jan 29, 2025, 5:38 PM UTC

radlad wrote: post #106

cafed00d wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely! Even for inference! The SOTA models for all commercial purposes need to run on a consumer’s device. Running either Grok2 or DeepSeek or even Llama405b requires nearly 400-500gb of memory. Buying a tinybox with enough gpu memory costs $15k-25k. Or equivalently the same if you build your own. A distributed Mac cluster costs about the same, if not more, if you’re buying 2-3 M2 Ultra each with 192gb of memory…

Keep in mind too that to run DeepSeek R1 you'd need 768 GB, so essentially 4 tinyboxes.

Post by quickthrowman » Wed, Jan 29, 2025, 5:48 PM UTC

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #104

>Energy-efficient lighting, such as LED bulbs, has become a popular solution to reduce energy consumption. However, it serves as a notable example of the Jevons Paradox. While LEDs significantly lower the cost of lighting per unit, this reduction often leads to increased usage. For instance, people may install more lights in their homes or businesses, use them for longer durations, or adopt decorative and outdoor lig…

Post by rendang » Wed, Jan 29, 2025, 5:51 PM UTC

aurareturn wrote: post #128

inglor_cz wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if she has 10 times as many (well possible if compared, say, to the 1960s), they aren't likely switched on most of the time. People generally don't like if it is "too bright" in the room, and the extra lights in closets, pantries etc. will only be used marginally, for a few minutes a day. It helps that LED lifetime isn't degraded by frequent on-and-off cycling.

So what are we measuring here with Jevons Paradox? Light bulb sales? Total lumen output? Total lighting revenue?

Post by aurareturn » Wed, Jan 29, 2025, 6:00 PM UTC

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #104

>Energy-efficient lighting, such as LED bulbs, has become a popular solution to reduce energy consumption. However, it serves as a notable example of the Jevons Paradox. While LEDs significantly lower the cost of lighting per unit, this reduction often leads to increased usage. For instance, people may install more lights in their homes or businesses, use them for longer durations, or adopt decorative and outdoor lig…

  This felt false to me, LED bulbs are generally 10x more efficient, so the average number of lights would have had to increase 10 fold, and this is ignoring the savings from not having AC cool those other 50 watts a bulb that went to heat.

Post by ahmeneeroe-v2 » Wed, Jan 29, 2025, 6:06 PM UTC

aurareturn wrote: post #137

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #104

>Energy-efficient lighting, such as LED bulbs, has become a popular solution to reduce energy consumption. However, it serves as a notable example of the Jevons Paradox. While LEDs significantly lower the cost of lighting per unit, this reduction often leads to increased usage. For instance, people may install more lights in their homes or businesses, use them for longer durations, or adopt decorative and outdoor lig…

This felt false to me, LED bulbs are generally 10x more efficient, so the average number of lights would have had to increase 10 fold, and this is ignoring the savings from not having AC cool those other 50 watts a bulb that went to heat. Jevons Paradox does not state that there is a 1:1 relationship between efficiency increase and consumption. A 2x increase in efficiency does not always result in a 2x increase in co…