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Nepenthes is a tarpit to catch AI web crawlers

zadzmo.org

131–140 of 290 posts

Re: Nepenthes is a tarpit to catch AI web crawlers

#131
post #114

The article claims that using this will "cause your site to disappear from all search results", but the generated pages don't have the traditional "meta" tags that state the intention to block robots. Are any search engines respecting that classic meta tag?

Yes, all the big search engines respect that meta tag. Some of the big abusive AI crawlers do too, kind of defeating the (stated) point of the tarpit.

Re: Nepenthes is a tarpit to catch AI web crawlers

#132
post #5

Unless this concept becomes a mass phenomenon with many implementations, isn’t this pretty easy to filter out? And furthermore, since this antagonizes billion-dollar companies that can spin up teams doing nothing but browse Github and HN for software like this to prevent polluting their datalakes, I wonder whether this is a very efficient approach.

It's not. It's rather pointless and frankly, nearsighted. And we can DDoS sites like this just as offensively as well simply by making many requests to it since its own docs say its Markov generation is computationally expensive, but it is NOT expensive for even 1 person to make many requests to it. Just expensive to host. So feel free to use this bash function to defeat these:

    httpunch() {
      local url=$1
      local connections=${2:-${HTTPUNCH_CONNECTIONS:-100}}
      local action=$1
      local keepalive_time=${HTTPUNCH_KEEPALIVE:-60}
      local silent_mode=false

      # Check if "kill" was passed as the first argument
      if [[ $action == "kill" ]]; then
        echo "Killing all curl processes..."
        pkill -f "curl --no-buffer"
        return
      fi

      # Parse optional --silent argument
      for arg in "$@"; do
        if [[ $arg == "--silent" ]]; then
          silent_mode=true
          break
        fi
      done

      # Ensure URL is provided if "kill" is not used
      if [[ -z $url ]]; then
        echo "Usage: httpunch [kill | ] [number_of_connections] [--silent]"
        echo "Environment variables: HTTPUNCH_CONNECTIONS (default: 100), HTTPUNCH_KEEPALIVE (default: 60)."
        return 1
      fi

      echo "Starting $connections connections to $url..."
      for ((i = 1; i 
(Generated in a few seconds with the help of an LLM of course.) Your free speech is also my free speech. LLM's are just a very useful tool, and Llama for example is open-source and also needs to be trained on data. And I just can't stand knee-jerk-anticorporate AI-doomers who decide to just create chaos instead of using that same energy to try to steer the progress .

Re: Nepenthes is a tarpit to catch AI web crawlers

#133
The arms race between AI bots and bot-protection is only going to get worse, leading to increasing infra costs while negatively impacting the UX and performance (captchas, rate limiting, etc.).

What's a reasonable way forward to deal with more bots than humans on the internet?

Re: Nepenthes is a tarpit to catch AI web crawlers

#134

The arms race between AI bots and bot-protection is only going to get worse, leading to increasing infra costs while negatively impacting the UX and performance (captchas, rate limiting, etc.). What's a reasonable way forward to deal with more bots than humans on the internet?

It's time to level up in this arms race. Let's stop delivering html documents, use animated rendering of information that is positioned in a scene so that the user has to move elements around for it to be recognizable, like a full site captcha. It doesn't need to be overly complex for the user that can intuitively navigate even a 3D world, but will take x1000 more processing for OpenAI. Feel free to come up with your creative designs to make automation more difficult.

Re: Nepenthes is a tarpit to catch AI web crawlers

#135
post #52
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be more efficient for them to spin up a team to study this robots.txt thing. They've ignored that low hanging fruit, so they won't do the more sophisticated thing any time soon.

You can't make money out of studying robots.txt, but you can avoid costs skipping bad web sites.

Sounds like a benefit for the site owner. lol. It accomplished what they wanted.

Re: Nepenthes is a tarpit to catch AI web crawlers

#137
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their security.txt email address replies and asks you to go on BugCrowd. BugCrowd staff is unwilling (or too incompetent) to run a bash curl command to reproduce the issue, while also refusing to forward it to OpenAI. The support@openai.com waits an hour before answering with ChatGPT answer. Issues raised on GitHub directly towards their engineers were not answered. Also Microsoft CERT & Azure security team do not re…

why try this hard for a private company that doesn't employ you?

Maybe it's wrecking a site they maintain or care about.

Re: Nepenthes is a tarpit to catch AI web crawlers

#139
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the https://chatgpt.com/backend-api/attributions endpoint doing (or responsible for when not crushing websites).

When ChatGPT cites web sources in it's output to the user, it will call `backend-api/attributions` with the URL and the API will return what the website is about. Basically it does HTTP request to fetch HTML ` ` tag. They don't check length of supplied `urls[]` array and also don't check if it contains the same URL over and over again (with minor variations). It's just bad engineering all around.

Slightly weird that this even exists - shouldn't the backend generating the chat output know what attribution it needs, and just ask the attributions api itself? Why even expose this to users?

Re: Nepenthes is a tarpit to catch AI web crawlers

#140
Are the big players (minus Google since no one blocks google bot) actively taking measures to circumvent things like Cloudflare bot protection?

Bot detection is fairly sophisticated these days. No one bypasses it by accident. If they are getting around it then they are doing it intentionally (and probably dedicating a lot of resources to it). I'm pro-scraping when bots are well behaved but the circumvention of bot detection seems like a gray-ish area.

And, yes, I know about Facebook training on copyrighted books so I don't put it above these companies. I've just never seen it confirmed that they actually do it.

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