UnitedHealth overcharged cancer patients for drugs by over 1,000% • Hacker News Board

Re: UnitedHealth overcharged cancer patients for drugs by over 1,000%

#131

Post by AtlasBarfed » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 9:39 PM UTC

porcoda wrote: post #7

Nothing is shocking about the insurance industry anymore since they’ve been pulling this kind of thing for years. To me the most shocking thing is the people who defend them. I understand the drive to make money and build huge businesses: what confuses me is that we treat human health the same as things that don’t directly impact the health of people. It seems to me that there are endless opportunities to get insanel…

Businesses are immortal unkillable people, per the Supreme Court.

If they kill people, they pay (small to them) fines.

Oh wait, the have special tax laws, depreciation, and deductions that real people can't use.

It's almost like he only recourse is to print out a gun and (censored)

Happy capitalism everybody.

Re: UnitedHealth overcharged cancer patients for drugs by over 1,000%

#132

Post by cluckindan » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 9:39 PM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #110

baq wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It shows that the US never had a world war on the continent. All the other countries treat health care as a matter of national security. The US’s primary concern is mark to market in pension funds.

There are plenty of countries with 'socialized' healthcare that had no wars in their territories.

And which countries would those be?

Re: UnitedHealth overcharged cancer patients for drugs by over 1,000%

#133

Post by criddell » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 9:39 PM UTC

jrflowers wrote: post #48

criddell wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how discount cards (like GoodRx) work?

No but I understand that Friskies and Lean Cuisine are not the same products despite both being owned by Nestle.

It's my understanding that the discount cards somehow work with pharmacy benefits managers (which the person I responded to mentioned). How and why they work has never made much sense to me.

Re: UnitedHealth overcharged cancer patients for drugs by over 1,000%

#134

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 9:40 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #97

brightball wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anybody defend them? I’ve been on the selection side as an employer and several others will probably echo what I’m about to say. Virtually every insurance provider is going up 15-20% / year to the point that it’s completely unsustainable. United was quoted to me as almost 20% lower than current rate for our provider (before they are about to go up 20%). On premium alone they will save some people close to $500 /…

Sure, I'll defend them, conceptually at least. I think most actors in this system are in some sense corrupt, and I don't think insurers are the most corrupt. Pull up the 2022 National Health Expenditure table, "National Health Expenditures by Type of Expenditure and Program: Calendar Year 2022" and look at combined hospital and physician expenses compared to insurer expenses; it's pretty black-and-white.

> look at combined hospital and physician expenses compared to insurer expenses; it's pretty black-and-white

I mean, yeah. They're doing all the work.

Re: UnitedHealth overcharged cancer patients for drugs by over 1,000%

#135

Post by antisthenes » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 9:40 PM UTC

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #13

throwway120385 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I'm going to say is that Optum Specialty Pharmacy is the sole source that UHC will accept for a lot of special drugs. For example UHC offers insurance for IVF including a separate cap for medications, but if you use their insurance you have to order through their subsidiary Optum Specialty Pharmacy and the prices triple or quadruple over MSRP if you buy from OSP using insurance versus if you pay cash. They also w…

I don't want you to give them the benefit of the doubt. I certainly don't think they deserve it. I do think, however, that a conversation about "overcharging" goes nowhere until people talk about exactly where charging ends and overcharging begins.

Anything above what Medicaid pays for drugs/procedures (and maybe a few % over to account for health insurance salaries) is overcharging.

Is that clear enough for you?

Re: UnitedHealth overcharged cancer patients for drugs by over 1,000%

#136

Post by jiggawatts » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 9:40 PM UTC

cluckindan wrote: post #132

outworlder wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of countries with 'socialized' healthcare that had no wars in their territories.

And which countries would those be?

Australia, New Zealand, etc…

Re: UnitedHealth overcharged cancer patients for drugs by over 1,000%

#137

Post by yoyohello13 » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 9:40 PM UTC

jmyeet wrote: post #64

Just look at the per-capita spending on healthcare by OECD countries, basically all of which have universal healthcare except for the US [1]. So the US pays almost twice as much as #2 (Switzerland) for significantly worse outcomes and less coverage. The US healthcare system is an unmitigated disaster that is a cautionary tale in how capitalism only promotes rent-seeking and regulatory capture. It's done with a servic…

This is what blows my mind about the universal health care opponents in the US. We would literally be spending less for better health care. People just cannot stomach their money going to the government instead of an unelected mega corp.

Re: UnitedHealth overcharged cancer patients for drugs by over 1,000%

#138

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 9:41 PM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #89

dangus wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is already established fact that Medicare is more efficient than private insurance. https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/forefront.20110920....

Assuming that your numbers are correct: You eliminate ~1.2% of total healthcare spending on private insurance profits. Then you eliminate ~37% of ~14% of ~27% total healthcare spending on insurance labor costs = ~1.5%. * Article states medicare is ~37% more efficient. * Insurance companies are required to spend AT LEAST 80% of premiums on actual patient care (~6% of the remaining ~20% are profits - already taken out…

You are absolutely ignoring the fact that you don't just get cheaper care (and lets also remember that spending is inflated by the bullshit of insurance "negotiation"), but oh, now everyone has healthcare, not just those employed with a decent employer who provides it.

Re: UnitedHealth overcharged cancer patients for drugs by over 1,000%

#139

Post by yadaeno » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 9:41 PM UTC

porcoda wrote: post #7

Nothing is shocking about the insurance industry anymore since they’ve been pulling this kind of thing for years. To me the most shocking thing is the people who defend them. I understand the drive to make money and build huge businesses: what confuses me is that we treat human health the same as things that don’t directly impact the health of people. It seems to me that there are endless opportunities to get insanel…

Medical Loss Ratio (MLR) is capped at 85% in the US which means 85% of revenue must go to patients. This is roughly inline with other countries with universal healthcare (MLR ranges from 85-95%).

The fundamental problem is that we don’t have enough resources to take care of everyone. Insurance companies are faced with the impossible task of allocating resources and making care/nocare decisions.

I don’t get the “endless profiteering” angle against insurance companies. If anything it’s the providers who are screwing over patients by gaming insurance and taking more than is necessary from the shared insurance pool of money.

Re: UnitedHealth overcharged cancer patients for drugs by over 1,000%

#140

Post by cluckindan » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 9:41 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #112

this_weekend wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>but the greater public ultimately felt he went too easy on them. Not sure what exactly is meant by that, but most people did not think the killing was acceptable. https://www.axios.com/2024/12/17/united-healthcare-ceo-killi...

”Survey of 1,000 registered voters conducted Dec. 11-13, 2024”