Dropbox Engineering Career Framework • Hacker News Board

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#131

Post by cyanydeez » Thu, Jan 02, 2025, 9:35 PM UTC

0xEF wrote: post #65

LittleTimothy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These frameworks serve 3 purposes. The first purpose is to have something concrete to point at so your employees don't sue you over unfair practices - they create a paper trail for management to operate and build evidence that what they are doing follows a meritocratic process (whether that's true or not is irrelevant, it's purely a legal concern). The second purpose is to motivate employees who want progression by s…

I'm also in the same boat as both of you, but I'm not sure I agree with the idea that I need to do a bunch of extra work to prove some nebulous concept like "impact at the next level" or whatever buzzwoo we want to say in place of that. If the manager wants to develop my talent, then they need to get off their over-priced rear ends and do so. I feel like making everyone at the lower levels shoulder all of the account…

Unfortunately, getting more for less is the point. Oncw these business are in flight, 99% of the work is "menial" and managers win by driving salaries down. A good way to do that is only raise salaries do to external challenges. Internally, do everything for minimal maintenance.

Keep in mind, the Art of War can easily be seen as a dummy's guide to product management and is just a default minimum because age managers are often selected by the peter principle.

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#132

Post by scarface_74 » Thu, Jan 02, 2025, 10:55 PM UTC

ecmascript wrote: post #20

Every senior role is always very arbitrary while the junior ones are very practical. I feel that this is why big companies fail because you can never actually tell if the senior employees fulfill their expectations because it comes down to personal preference. Stuff like this only shows that it's not worth making too much of an effort since it's not really recognized anyway. The only time effort and monetary benefits…

> I feel that this is why big companies fail because you can never actually tell if the senior employees fulfill their expectations because it comes down to personal preference

Which large tech companies have “failed” since 2010?

Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Google and Microsoft were the “large” companies then and are still the large companies now.

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#133

Post by LtWorf » Fri, Jan 03, 2025, 6:52 AM UTC

snk wrote: post #110

LtWorf wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly the spec is crap and must be rewritten so…

Planning is very useful even though things never go according to plan, honest.

Also who writes the plan is completely disconnected from reality, so the plan is completely useless.

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#134

Post by ebiester » Fri, Jan 03, 2025, 2:23 PM UTC

wiseowise wrote: post #92

ebiester wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, yes and no. It takes effort to become better than you are at your current level. To get past junior, that should happen by osmosis. For some people, talent alone will take them to senior. For others, they will need to put in the time to learn how do work more efficiently. Consider that it will take a senior developer 20 hours to do a job a junior might take 80 and the quality will be better for the senior. In tur…

I have a guy at work that is senior in everything but title. His manager uses "framework" to extort him. This has been going on for at least a year.

And if that’s the case, you have to find another position.

But I’ll tell you the lack of a framework does not change anything. Then all you get is “in my judgment, you haven’t proven yourself to be senior yet.”

And the result is the same: the person leaves to a place that will appreciate them.

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#135

Post by CraigJPerry » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 7:13 AM UTC

wiseowise wrote: post #103

CraigJPerry wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing code is easy when you have a spec to work to. It more or less writes itself - see Getting that spec is damned hard. What do i mean by spec? Basically are you going to build the right thing. A hard problem - if you think it’s easy, it more than likely means you didn’t understand the problem. The reason pinning down a spec is so hard is because at the macro level, there are very few actual solutions - mostly on…

> Writing code is easy when you have a spec to work to. It more or less writes itself - see I'm sorry, but it's hard to take your comment seriously when your definition of "spec" is AoC puzzle.

What is it specifically about an AoC puzzle that makes it not a spec?

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#136

Post by CraigJPerry » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 7:15 AM UTC

LtWorf wrote: post #133

snk wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Planning is very useful even though things never go according to plan, honest.

Also who writes the plan is completely disconnected from reality, so the plan is completely useless.

The context of this conversation is the actions of a senior developer. If the senior developer allows someone else to write the plan in isolation (thus allowing a completely useless plan to be devised), then they’re by definition of the senior role, not a senior developer, right?

A senior developer is not a passive position.