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VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

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Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#131

Post by binary132 »

Silhouette wrote: post #95
binary132 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more that our major markets are totally dominated by the standard pattern and there are no meaningful alternatives outside of bike and mass transit, which are not meaningful alternatives to vehicle ownership.

This is the most important point IMHO. There is no rational argument that someone is voluntarily signing up to some consumer-hostile behaviour by choosing to make a purchase if (a) every supplier in the market is playing the same game and (b) it is difficult to function as a normal member of society without buying that type of product from someone. Smartphones are a textbook example of this. For many people so are ca…

If anything our regulatory system has been hijacked by capital sponsors to reinforce the fundamental monopolies that operate our economy, and the secondary consequence is that if we do not continue to do it at this point, our economy will implode. So the government is not only captured but also has only one meaningful choice: to further reinforce the monopolistic control of the western economies in the hopes of continued “economic growth.”

Obviously this should be seen as a disaster scenario (and highly likely outcome) for a capitalist society.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#132

Post by numpad0 »

pluc wrote: post #37
alexey-salmin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ECU modifications are rare (most people don't care) and car manufacturers don't lose money on it. If money gets on the table, I'm 100% sure they'll sue the workshops like John Deere did. And given the lobby VW has in Europe they can also pass some extra laws to reinforce their case.

I don't know about that... There's a whole industry of performance parts that softly depend on ECU modifications. There's much less of an incentive to swap parts if your ECU doesn't keep up with the performance gains. But you are absolutely right on the loss of money aspect.

Most "ECU tuning" are just minor config file changes. The map is sufficiently complex being an R^2 data, enough to justify it being a skill. Actual car-guy-firmware-hackers are ultra rare.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#133

Post by numpad0 »

dirkt wrote: post #52
Etheryte wrote: post #8

Germany makes a big ruckus about their local industry struggling to compete with Chinese manufacturers, but meanwhile the Volkswagen Group stumbles from one scandal to the next. As far as I'm concerned, if that's the way you do business, go bankrupt. I know all big manufacturers have their warts and flaws, but VW continues to be the frontrunner year after year.

Don't forget that other manufacturers collect the same data, they just didn't have a collection of blunders that allowed access. No malicious intent this time, but it clearly highlights that companies need to learn to put policies in place to make double sure PII is actually protected to the degree the law already requires. We also need laws that force companies to make opting out of this kind of data collection much…

I'm hallucinating, but IIUC, there is a philosophical loophole that makes tracking a car through factory installed means is a total wild west; because you don't know who owns or drives the car, but a car is sold to dealerships and resold to households to be used and maintained by anyone, you technically wouldn't know if it's driven by humans, just what you made seem to be doing something. Is that (still) correct?

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#134

Post by dmuso »

oellegaard wrote: post #13

I own both Mercedes and Skoda (owned by VW) and I feel like both companies are headed in an extremely bad direction. The other day I saw that now Mercedes wants to charge me 200-300 USD/year for navigation and the ability to remotely lock your door. The fact is they let you pay $100k for a car and then they behave like Facebook and other consumer platforms where you pay with your data and can buy add-ons. You can't c…

My car was made in 1998. Used cars are probably the best option for the time being.

Surely hackers have figured out how to block radios in the new cars?

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#135

Post by t0bia_s »

Earw0rm wrote: post #50
Etheryte wrote: post #8

Germany makes a big ruckus about their local industry struggling to compete with Chinese manufacturers, but meanwhile the Volkswagen Group stumbles from one scandal to the next. As far as I'm concerned, if that's the way you do business, go bankrupt. I know all big manufacturers have their warts and flaws, but VW continues to be the frontrunner year after year.

As you've brought China into this, which is the greater scandal? 1) VW Group collects data on its customers. 2) Chinese-made vehicles have potential two-way telemetry and control (we don't know, it's closed-source), and we've just allowed tens of thousands of 1.5-tonne, potentially autonomous vehicles with goodness-knows-what sensor packages, plenty of demonstrated ability to kill, injure, catch fire or block critica…

The worse part here is, that overpriced EV's are donated by EU taxes, companies can ask about 8000 EUR per vehicle. Same for photovoltaic panels, made only in China. Buying stuffs on market is one thing. Twisting market by government, is another story.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#136

Post by allarm »

28304283409234 wrote: post #76
TacticalCoder wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all part of a plan. The EU is very busy setting up the equivalent of the chinese "social credit". It started with "ESG" rating by banks (where you're already attributed an ESG rating depending on which companies you invest your money in) and now it's likely they'll be moving forward with computing your yearly carbon emission to then decide if you can go on vacation or not and how far. Don't underestimate the glo…

EU has prevented many dystopia from even forming. The main reason we have seen so little war in our continent is the EU. Edit: "computing your yearly carbon emission to then decide if you can go on vacation or not and how far." I am one hundred percent behind that idea. Make this law. Please. People need boundaries. Freedom is not the absence of boundaries.

> Freedom is not the absence of boundaries.

No, of course not. Freedom is total control.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#137

Post by Silhouette »

binary132 wrote: post #131
Silhouette wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most important point IMHO. There is no rational argument that someone is voluntarily signing up to some consumer-hostile behaviour by choosing to make a purchase if (a) every supplier in the market is playing the same game and (b) it is difficult to function as a normal member of society without buying that type of product from someone. Smartphones are a textbook example of this. For many people so are ca…

If anything our regulatory system has been hijacked by capital sponsors to reinforce the fundamental monopolies that operate our economy, and the secondary consequence is that if we do not continue to do it at this point, our economy will implode. So the government is not only captured but also has only one meaningful choice: to further reinforce the monopolistic control of the western economies in the hopes of conti…

I agree that there is a lot of regulatory capture within Western governments and this is bad. I respectfully disagree that we can't fix it.

In particular I reject the notion that any organisation or system is too big to fail. If any commercial organisation or cartel is reaching a position or scale where its failure would represent a significant threat to the economic stability or indeed the democratic government of its host nation(s) then it is imperative that it should be quickly - and if necessary brutally - brought to a position where either it no longer poses such a threat or it is effectively destroyed and space is created for alternatives (possibly derived from the original) that will better serve the society they are part of.

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