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38th Chaos Communication Congress

events.ccc.de

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Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#131

Post by aveao »

weinzierl wrote: post #34
sevg wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what was horrible and unfair about it? (Genuine question, I don’t know anything about how it was done.)

From what I have heard it used to be quite easy to get tickets in the previous post-pandemic years. Before the pandemic and especially before Leipzig it used to be very hard sometimes. Now is the first year that seems to me where demand picked up it was not a given to get a ticket. This might have contributed to find the system unfair.

There was only one other congress after the pandemic and that was 37c3 (last year). That one indeed did not sell out and was an outliar.

I did go to 36c3 (end of dec 2019, right before pandemic) and the difficulty of buying tickets was the same as this year.

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#132

Post by Y_Y »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #94
usr1106 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communication is not good if everybody speaks the same language at a different level. I have worked in English for close to 30 years and been at many international conferences, presented myself a couple of times. Still I feel handicapped in some presentations/discussions that are dominated by native speakers not using offshore English.

Hmm, not sure, I'm non-native English speaker as well. I have a lot more problems understanding/being understood by non-native English speakers from a different language background than I or they have with a native (American) English speaker. Or do you mean America with offshore?

What you say matches my experience. I grew up speaking "local" English, but now my day-to-day language is "international" English. I find it funny when people compliment me on my clear and simple English, because when I talk to my family it's anything but.

In my job I deal with tons of non-native speakers, and in some cases I'll end up "translating" between two speakers who can't understand each other, even though it's all nominally English. This is especially the case when they're from different parts of the world and accent and native language strongly influence their speech.

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#133

Post by bratwurst3000 »

mr_mitm wrote: post #121
dpassens wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you just use a semicolon to do the same in English? And even if not, just because an idea is split over several sentences doesn't mean you can't communicate it. That's what paragraphs are for.

You can, and probably should. Texts like Kant are borderline incomprehensible even to native Germans and seem to only serve the author's need for displaying their intelligence. The ideas they are conveying are not that complex. Relativistic quantum theory or string theory can be expressed in English (plus math, while it's not like math wouldn't be needed in German) just fine, so I really don't understand where these…

yeah i am with you. Sometimes they overdoe it for no reason. I also prefer english to learn sth. Only because it is more straightforward and simpler to communicate. I love it

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#134

Post by lispm »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #104
_19qg wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the US reader: > 39 MPs in the Bundestag Out of currently 733 MPs with a parliament with "proportional representation", where the number of seats is proportional to the number of votes (Germany-wide, not local). Die Linke thus has 5.3% seats in the Bundestag. Thus this is not "a lot of votes" in relation to the voting population. > "anti-capitalist" (which seems to be more popular than claiming to be socialist) A…

I don't think this gives an accurate picture. Even a 5% party can have an outsized influence on the politics. And it's not clear what the next election will bring. > Anti-capitalism is found in right-wing parties, too. Like the German AFD. Well, many/most of their proponents now seem to be fans of an older party which had national socialism in the name, so no surprise. In reality, the market rules and social net in m…

> Even a 5% party can have an outsized influence on the politics

Die Linke does not have an "outsized influence". It's also shrinking.

It may seem to have "outsized influence" for someone from the US or the UK, with their different voting system, which practically creates a two-party system. In a proportional representation system smaller parties have influence, too - for example by being a coalition member.

Die Linke has not been a member of a coalition in Germany, so far, and it is not expected that this will change.

> which mostly means that some (insurance) costs are lifted from the incur-er and distributed socially

That's a very narrow view. Try to get a German-style workers council at an US company. Good luck!

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#135

Post by aveao »

lispm wrote: post #107
davrosthedalek wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a native German speaker living in the US, I have mixed feelings: - Talks in German feel slightly less, hmm, professional? Maybe it's the field I grow up in (physics). Like, ok, in your studies you speak German, but when you grow up and go to big-boy conferences, it's English. The Congress should be big-boy league. - Also, realistically, many technical terms are English, so the a German talk might have to make hard…

> "Realistically though, the congress is a worldwide phenomenon" Actually it is an open meeting of the German members of the CCC. What you see online is an important part of the congress, but it is only a part of the whole thing. Much more it is a gathering of activists. Thus its from the CCC for CCC. Guests are welcome. Since the talks maybe interesting to a larger audience they are streamed and translated in real-t…

Coming to my first congress (36c3) was special in this regard: Congress was all about talks for me before, but I only went to 2 talks. Last year I went to none. This year I plan to go to none too.

Congress is a gathering ground for likeminded people from all sorts of interests. Talks can be watched at home (except for ones that are not recorded at the request of the talk-givers), but being in the room with likeminded people, talking with them, learning from them is IMO irreplaceable.

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#136

Post by davrosthedalek »

hengheng wrote: post #20
sneak wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because people are good at English doesn't mean their English skills are up to giving a permanently-archived talk to tens of thousands of people at the 1st or 2nd most important hacker con on the planet. I'm all for giving a presentation in the language you're best at. Let machine translation (or manual translation) pick up the slack, not one person's possibly-mediocre ESL skills. I also can speak German but I a…

I'm a native speaker and I hate how people have been stumbling through their presentations, lacking basic vocabulary, being dragged along by their bullet points. It wasn't even the accent, it was that the language occupied their minds so much that they couldn't think about what they had to say or how they were saying it. Lots of talks felt like watching a ninth grader in front of the classroom. Now some of these guys…

>Please, CCC, don't send these people on a stage that they don't enjoy when you could also work with them to get their stuff across.

Hmm, maybe this is actually a problem the community can address. For our conferences, people who are new to giving talks normally have a practice run or two at their universities with local people. Then they get feedback how to improve the talk. It doesn't work wonders, but it does help quite a bit. Not only does the feedback help improve the slides, the style of presentation, it also builds confidence.

Maybe CCC/somebody could organize optional "training sessions" where people can give test-runs. I'd volunteer to listen and give feedback. Or maybe a tutorial: "How to give a good congress talk"

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#137

Post by arrrg »

bijant wrote: post #117

[flagged]

You went into women only spaces with the obvious intent to troll.

Quote: „Deshalb ist der Chaos Computer Club nach seiner Satzung und nach dem Willen der Mitglieder eine galaktische Gemeinschaft für alle Lebensformen. Als solche wollen wir allen Teilnehmenden eine sichere und schöne Erfahrung auf unseren Veranstaltungen bieten, unabhängig von Alter, geschlechtlicher und sexueller Identität, körperlichen und geistigen Voraussetzungen, ethnischer, regionaler und/oder religiöser Zugehörigkeit bzw. Herkunft, äußerlicher Erscheinung oder sozioökonomischer Stellung.

Wer sich dieser Offenheit nicht verpflichtet fühlt, hat bei uns nichts zu suchen.“

Translation: “That is why the Chaos Computer Club, according to its constitution and the will of its members, is a galactic community for all life forms. As such, we want to offer all participants a safe and enjoyable experience at our events, regardless of age, gender and sexual identity, physical and mental abilities, ethnic, regional and/or religious affiliation or origin, physical appearance or socio-economic status.

Anyone who does not feel committed to this openness has no place with us.”

Anyone who goes into protected spaces with the intent to troll and score political points is an obvious (metaphorical) bomb thrower who should have no place in any events that want to provide all participants a “safe and enjoyable experience”.

“Open to all creatures” does obviously not mean anyone can come. Anyone who themselves cannot be open to all creatures has to be aggressively excluded from such events. That is the only way to defend openness.

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#138

Post by BoingBoomTschak »

imiric wrote: post #68
ralfd wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your snark is a bit unfair. But I also noted how far-left and anti-capitalistic many talks/speaker are. I guess it shows the power differential between US vs Europe/Germany and also the difference between disrupting American and risk-averse European culture? Super smart people in the Bay Area found startups to get rich (and invent the future). Super smart people in Germany can only go into academia and research how t…

> I also noted how far-left and anti-capitalistic many talks/speaker are. Why is this suprising? The hacker culture is rooted in anti-establishment philosophy, spun off from the hippy movement of the 1960s. This is not a regional thing. It's more than a bit ironic that this site is called "hacker news", yet is hosted by a company that holds opposite ideals. :) The term "hacker" has largely lost its original meaning,…

The establishment has changed "a bit", though.

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#139

Post by dralley »

usr1106 wrote: post #58
dtquad wrote: post #10

38 years of advocacy for more degrowth and regulations in Europe.

Unfortunately not enough. I hate living in a European colony exploited by unethical US oligopolists.

Having some domestic competition would be preferable, would it not?
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