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Unless my phone can be a PC, I don't want to keep paying for extra performance

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Re: Unless my phone can be a PC, I don't want to keep paying for extra performance

#131

Post by benj111 »

tanewishly wrote: post #125
Kirby64 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For starters I'm 1 person, so the market is not O. And I know of others, and I know I'm not alone. Clearly you don't work in test and measurement. I said approximately 0, when compared to smartphone sales… which it is. I don’t need a survey to know that, since the vast vast vast majority of people using phones don’t even know what an oscilloscope, a DAC, or an ADC is. If you think that’s untrue, I’d suggest widenin…

To expand upon that point: a new feature for smartphones that really takes off has to fall in one of two categories: 1. so incredibly convenient to always have with you, that everyone's willing to overlook shortcomings compared to dedicated equipment. Prime example: camera. 2. Offer a new type of use that is widely considered desirable. Example: mobile access to Internet. Most use cases either cater to too few people…

Does it have to take off though?

The GP seems to be basically saying the same thing as many others have expressed. They want their phone to basically be a PC. Whether that involves upgrading, installing your own OS, or otherwise just being able to use it for an arbitrary workload.

I don't know why the market is such, that expensive phones remove features, such as extra sim card slots, sd card slots or head phone jacks. It doesn't seem impossible that Samsung could find room in their lineup of 8000 phones to have a ruggedised phone, with some kind of standardised interface on the back.

especially, as increasingly you go to a restaurant and the waiter has a phone/ tablet. and I'm sure there are many other industries that could do with basically a phone, that does one extra specialised thing, be that an rfid scanner, or a bore scope, or a label printer.

Re: Unless my phone can be a PC, I don't want to keep paying for extra performance

#133

Post by ghaff »

ajdude wrote: post #129
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im surprised Apple hasn’t done this yet. I thought about this maybe 5-6 years ago as a product idea. My thought was that you had a monitor with a wireless charging pad built into the base, drop you phone on the base and it automatically connects to the monitor and other peripherals and starts charging. You just pick up your phone and leave and it automatically disconnects. I think other commenters are right that this…

It would not be hard for them to do this, and some apps exist to emulate a desktop environment when you plug the iPhone into a dock and hook it up to a monitor, but it's pretty sad that Apple won't embrace something like this. Despite the fact that the largest iPhone and smallest iPad are less than 2" difference, the $130 Apple Pencil will not work with an iPhone Pro Max, and both devices run different operating syst…

Contra Microsoft which tried to use Windows as a beachhead to everything, Apple has actually been pretty successful. I do expect to see more convergence over time. But, even if there are self-interested reasons for not sprinting in that direction, I also think there are good reasons for keeping use cases (e.g. phone/consumer/creator) a bit separated in the near-term rather than forcing everyone in one bucket.

Re: Unless my phone can be a PC, I don't want to keep paying for extra performance

#134

Post by gregjor »

I think you haven’t considered the luxury goods aspect of higher-end phones. The majority of people buying new phones every year or two don’t carefully study specs, and don’t need to use a PC or laptop at all, or only need a “real” computer for work or specific tasks. Already smartphones serve as the primary internet access device for a majority of internet users.

Sales of new phone models have a lot more to do with perceived status and obsolescence (real or imagined). Actual performance improvements remain largely incremental and irrelevant for the majority of phone users, but perception and fear of obsolescence drive sales anyway. The same goes for camera quality: actually important to a small percentage of users, but perceived as important by a lot more users even if they only post low-quality snapshots online.

Most people don’t need to “upgrade” their purse, sneakers, watch, car, etc. as often as they do. Smartphones have turned into Veblen goods for some, and status display for many more. Spend some time with teenagers. Their fears of not having the newest phone derive entirely from perceived status and fitting in, not from number of USB ports or processor speed.

The number of smartphone users actually interested in using their phone as a PC — with external monitor, keyboard, pointing device — describes a small niche of the smartphone market. Solutions have existed for some time (Samsung Dex and Motorola Ready For, for example). Consumers by and large ignore those offerings and buy for status and FOMO reasons.

The phone manufacturers have so far succeeded in selling disposable and un-repairable devices and feeding the constant upgrade cycle. I have heard many people say they will replace their phone when the screen cracks or it gets too many scratches — the same way they would justify discarding a pair of shoes rather than getting them repaired.

Re: Unless my phone can be a PC, I don't want to keep paying for extra performance

#135

Post by ghaff »

Nullabillity wrote: post #126
ghaff wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for most people, better cameras are one of the selling points of a premium phone. I even know pretty serious photographers (which at one point included myself) who don't generally travel with standalone cameras for most purposes any longer.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that "serious photographers" are a pretty tiny minority of phone owners.

Probably. But, if I look at Apple's advertising, takes better photos and video seems to be a pretty big part of what they're selling. (OK, AI on the new models.)

Re: Unless my phone can be a PC, I don't want to keep paying for extra performance

#136

Post by Havoc »

mattlondon wrote: post #42

I won't pay for performance, but I will pay for a fresh new battery which as a bonus comes wrapped in a brand new phone!

You can just get them swooped. Didn’t that halfway through keeping my last ifruit 4 years

Re: Unless my phone can be a PC, I don't want to keep paying for extra performance

#138

Post by ghaff »

cassepipe wrote: post #127
ghaff wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who regularly gets phones lost or stolen? I did break one once hiking with some sort of rock collision in my pocket but this isn't a regular thing over many years.

I do. One was lost watching a video in the bathtub. A wasp came very closed to my head and I dived into the water with phone in hand sadly. Another one fell off my bike phone holder while riding on old style pavement (lots of vibrations) and the car behind me rolled over it (still functional except for the screen though, I was impressed). Another was lost because I left it in a stupid place that I did not have access…

And I broke 1 phone in 15 years. Yeah, losing one every 2 years is somewhat extreme.

Re: Unless my phone can be a PC, I don't want to keep paying for extra performance

#139

Post by tetrisgm »

awiesenhofer wrote: post #130
tetrisgm wrote: post #96

This keeps being postponed. For some reason Chrome OS isn’t being ported to Android devices. Motorola tried their take. Microsoft tried the windows phone thingy. Nokia had the N900 Linux phones. Even Android was supposed to run a Windows 11 VM just fine. Microsoft killed the Surface Neo. There was a phone shaped Windows PC called the Emporium or something, killed too. This whole space has been cursed. You can hack so…

> This keeps being postponed. > there’s no “this phone is a PC“ offering that is really viable. > I wish there were serious efforts. You should really google "Samsung Dex".

I've used it plenty. In fact it's what I used primarily on the lap dock. However, I think it's pretty poor. Android apps really don't feel natural in windows. The window management is generally poor. I like pinning windows to half of the screen, using keyboard shortcuts. Having a consistent clipboard across apps. I think it's an ok solution, but everything runs a bit slow and feels stilted. It doesn't help that wireless solutions have pretty severe refresh rate and lag issues, and usb c makes the setup a bit inelegant. It came in handy a few times that I wanted to do text input and my phone wouldn't be ideal. That's it.

Re: Unless my phone can be a PC, I don't want to keep paying for extra performance

#140

Post by agallant »

amelius wrote: post #100
add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this mean? With a personal computer I can do anything I want, for my own benefit. With an iPhone I can do what Apple gives me permission to do, subject to what benefits them.

Simply put, your iPhone contains your life. Whereas a PC is often just a tool, which can be used by multiple people in principle.

It's interesting you say "just" a tool - I think the median reader here sees tool as an inherent part of what "computer" means.

I'm not trying to dismiss your perspective here, I think you have a real point about the intimacy and personal importance of modern smartphone usage. From a layperson perspective, you're absolutely correct that these deliver on the promise of "personal computer."

But to those who choose to spend more time learning and understanding them, computers are (very flexible) tools, and specifically they're tools where you get to choose the computation being performed. This is why, to me at least, (most) mobile devices simply can't be "personal computers."

Smartphones and tablets are still useful to people with that perspective - but I see them not as a computer but as an appliance. I turn it on, I turn it off, I maybe get to fiddle with a few knobs, but most of it is a black box that hopefully "just works."

And hey, I like that convenience - as long as it's not the only way I have to interact with technology.

So, it may seem pedantic, but I think it is worth distinguishing true general purpose computers from phones. They are absolutely personal - a "personal smart appliance", if you will, but not a personal computer at the end of the day.

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