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Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

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Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#131

Post by bdangubic »

mckn1ght wrote: post #113
bdangubic wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

didn’t realize I had to spell it out like this - yes, exactly. thanks

I don’t think you understand. Per your other comment: > it is cost of doing business and you can’t pass that shit off to customers What do you think prices are? They are the costs to the business plus some profit margin. Visa is passing their costs down to their customers too. Businesses are completely within their right to pass the CC charges on to customers. It becomes the customers’ cost of doing business with the…

That's all fine - businesses can be within their right to do whatever they please. However, myself and myriad of other people will simply go elsewhere where we are not charged different for the same product/service depending on the method of payment we choose :)

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#132

Post by bdangubic »

TheDong wrote: post #124
bdangubic wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

none of this makes sense of course if you want electricity, you call electric company, turn it on and you get a bill for usage. you want the priviledge of using visa at your store, you call them and get it all setup and and then you get a bill for this. it is cost of doing business and you can’t pass that shit off to customers

What you're saying doesn't make sense. If you run a cafe, and one customer orders an espresso and the other orders a latte, are you not allowed to charge them differently? Buying milk to make lattes is also a cost of doing business, but it's a cost that is only driven by people who buy lattes, so you pass the cost of milk on to latte buying customers and not espresso buying ones, right? Credit cards are the same as m…

Now I have seen it all - comparing a method of payment to milk might just be the greatest thing I have ever read on HN and that is ... something for sure ...

so let's try again - I am buying a product or a service. It is exactly the same product, same "milk" if you will :) now the business is telling me that based on the method of payment I choose (who the F carries cash around in 2024/25...) I will be charge _different_ price for the _same milk_? that ... makes absolutely no sense.

of course the business itself can choose to charge me extra 3% if I pay with Visa or 15% if I bring a goat to barter with but of course I am going to pick my ass up and head on over to a competitor who won't charge me 3% or 15% extra

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#133

Post by quickthrowman »

jghn wrote: post #25
xscott wrote: post #6

The other one I'm seeing lately is a semi-stealth "service charge" on the bill. Something like 18% to 20% added to the bill without really standing out. This used to be something they'd do for "larger parties", but now I'm seeing it even when I'm eating solo. This makes for an uncomfortable situation where I now have to ask the waiter or bartender if they receive this as a tip. Then I need to decide if I want to tip…

When this started showing up near me the places that did it trained their staff to tell you up front that it was on there. They'd make a comment that you can add extra if you wish, but no obligation to do so. Over time I've found more and more they just don't mention it at all. More than once I got home and realized I tipped on top of the total + service charge: "Why was that about $100 more than I thought it'd be?",…

> Far more common here are ~3% "kitchen appreciation fees" that get paid directly to the kitchen staff. I'm AOK with these but some people really complain about them.

It’s annoying because they could price it in up front. A restaurant bill looks like a utility bill these days with all of the line item charges, just include the damn fees in the price of food!

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#134

Post by thejazzman »

mhx1138 wrote: post #129
Two4 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why the US doesn't have basic consumer protections, like products and services must be advertised at their total cost to consumer. Why not have supermarket prices marked with sales tax included? Why allow companies to advertise one price and charge another? Why is this not a voter issue?

That’s just another word for overreaching regulation.

Totally. Let the scoundrels advertise whatever prices they want, it's the consumers fault for being exploited!

/s

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#135

Post by jghn »

quickthrowman wrote: post #133
jghn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When this started showing up near me the places that did it trained their staff to tell you up front that it was on there. They'd make a comment that you can add extra if you wish, but no obligation to do so. Over time I've found more and more they just don't mention it at all. More than once I got home and realized I tipped on top of the total + service charge: "Why was that about $100 more than I thought it'd be?",…

> Far more common here are ~3% "kitchen appreciation fees" that get paid directly to the kitchen staff. I'm AOK with these but some people really complain about them. It’s annoying because they could price it in up front. A restaurant bill looks like a utility bill these days with all of the line item charges, just include the damn fees in the price of food!

The argument, which one can choose to agree with or not, is that this allows them to scale BOH pay with how busy the night is. That's similar to how tipping works for FOH staff, but at least in my state BOH staff are not allowed to share in any tip pool.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#136

Post by disattention »

hattmall wrote: post #41
jghn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When this started showing up near me the places that did it trained their staff to tell you up front that it was on there. They'd make a comment that you can add extra if you wish, but no obligation to do so. Over time I've found more and more they just don't mention it at all. More than once I got home and realized I tipped on top of the total + service charge: "Why was that about $100 more than I thought it'd be?",…

Geeze, $100 more? So like your $400 dinner was $500 instead?

It isn't unrealistic unfortunately. It's not unusual for a few people to rack up $300, especially with drinks involved. Many states (e.g. Texas) have sales tax, so already +8.25%. Add on an 18% automatic gratuity, then tip another 15% unknowingly and you're paying $440 for your $300 worth of food...

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#137

Post by jghn »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #120
jghn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's standard to tip 15% for decent service in a restaurant This is not true, and hasn't been for some time [1] [1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Average-reported-tip-rat...

The last metric in this 2017 study, before the pandemic, showed tipping was between 18% and 19% in, "surveys (that) are aimed at diners who patronize full-service midscale and upscale restaurants". It also shows a downward trend in the last few data points. All things considered, including diners who patronize "downscale" full-service restaurants (like diners), and given the many decades-long standard of 15% tips, it…

> the many decades-long standard of 15% tips

The 15% standard supplanted the previous 10% standard somewhere in the 1970s and lasted to the early/mid-aughts depending on where in the US one lived. I don't agree that ~30 years is "many decades-long". Further, that 15% itself was an uptick from the prior standard demonstrates that we're dealing with a moving target, for better or worse.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#138

Post by cafard »

paleotrope wrote: post #69
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The terminals are the problem. If people would abandon a cashless lifestyle they can tip normally without the electronic shame box.

All that will happen is people will develop scar tissue and just not tip anymore. People used to be polite and be nice when they picked up the phone from some number they didn't recognize. Scam artists USE this old custom to scam people. Well, most people don't even pick up the phone any more and for people that have to, like myself, the instant I recognize a cold call, I just hangup. I don't feel guilty about it any…

That cold calls are typically IVR removes any residual embarrassment over just hanging up.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#139

Post by EricE »

thejazzman wrote: post #134
mhx1138 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s just another word for overreaching regulation.

Totally. Let the scoundrels advertise whatever prices they want, it's the consumers fault for being exploited! /s

All you have to do is look at the receipt.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#140

Post by throwawaymobule »

cadamsau wrote: post #130
Two4 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why the US doesn't have basic consumer protections, like products and services must be advertised at their total cost to consumer. Why not have supermarket prices marked with sales tax included? Why allow companies to advertise one price and charge another? Why is this not a voter issue?

There’s thousands of different tax regimes in the US - dozens to hundreds in every state, thanks to city taxes and the like. All businesses would need to advertise the right price everywhere. Doesn’t scale. It’d be neat to see a campaign to popularize a term like “final price” or “all-in price”. It’d encourage the creation of products that always show the right price even as taxes change. And consumers would be empow…

Even if it only impacted the price shown in store, it would be a huge improvement.
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