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GIMP 3.0 is on the way

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Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#131

Post by mdaniel »

soulofmischief wrote: post #5
albertzeyer wrote: post #2

I find it a bit weird that Gimp does not use the latest GTK (i.e. GTK4, which was considered stable since 2020), even though GTK originates in the Gimp project itself. It actually seems to be quite a bit behind: This is now the first release of Gimp which started to use GTK3, i.e. before, it even still used GTK2 (reached end-of-life in 2020)?

From the second paragraph of the article: > GTK 4 has been available for a few years now, and is on the project's radar, but the plan was always to finish the GTK 3 work first.

Maybe so, but did you actually open that "on the radar" link? It was closed WONTFIX because moving to the latest release of their bespoke library was considered "tech debt" :-/ https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/6440#note_12726... I actually think it was terribly disingenuous of LWN to use "on the radar" language pointing at a closed issue. Maybe there is another issue (hiding in the 12,000 issues) that is actively tracking the Gtk4 migration, but that one ain't it

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#132

Post by mdaniel »

I got excited because I thought the headline meant it was out, but no, the first sentence says "3.0 is on the way" but given this project's release cadence that sentence could mean any number of time units

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#133

Post by losthalo »

Euphorbium wrote: post #19
siliconpotato wrote: post #14

because of the unpleasant name of the app (which the devs refuse to change), lets normalise pronouncing the G in GIMP like the G in GIF...

Gimp pronounced like jimp? Might save this disgusting name.

And thus the Gimp-Jimp wars began, even more brutal than the XEmacs-GNUEmacs wars.

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#134

Post by prmoustache »

asddubs wrote: post #42
soulofmischief wrote: post #15

I started using GIMP around 2003 as a small child, and I remember being hyped for 3.0 and non-destructive editing even back then. I'm in my thirties now. Slow and steady wins the race. Congrats to the GIMP team, can't imagine the catharsis they will experience when 3.0 officially drops.

not sure if i would call taking 20 years for a release "steady"

There have been many many releases between 2.0 and 3.0. And many releases in the 2.99.x branch specifically.

Many other projects would have simply switched to a different versionning scheme and got rid of beta versions to simply iterate on releases like web browsers do nowadays.

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#135

Post by carlosjobim »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #129
carlosjobim wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, not gonna buy into the paranoia that exists within every cult, including the FOSS cult. If your graphic design work has to be extremely secretive, then you'll do it on a machine without an internet connection. Do you think secretive companies like Apple or car manufacturers use GIMP for their graphical work? Of course not. We're speaking about professionals now. If they need to, they will use devices without a…

Given enough resources, floss tools are often best in class. With your short-sighted attitude, Linux, Firefox, Blender, etc wouldn’t exist and we’d all be a lot poorer for it—fully controlled by the Oracles of the world without option.

FOSS tools are usually worst in class for the actual user, with some exceptions. The exceptions are generally dev tools and sys admin tools. Linux is not best in class in anything unless you're a developer or a server admin.

The free market is a much more effective process for getting quality tools for the rest of us. There's nothing short sighted about it. As a professional I pay a fair price for my tools and the developers get a salary so they can continue to improve it. In the sector of image editing and graphic design, Affinity is a perfect example: cheap and top quality.

Open source software will not improve for any end user by more people using it. Only programmers can improve it, and only if they want to. Usually they don't want to, because the users are not paying them.

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#136

Post by prmoustache »

idoubtit wrote: post #97
joaomacp wrote: post #22

I use Gimp from time to time, and often get frustrated with its... unique UI. It's nice to see they're hearing feedback and working on it :D A tip for others that feel the same: if you've used Photoshop before and are used to its UI, try the free Photopea website. It's a Photoshop "clone" that works really well in web (I believe it's a solo dev doing it too). It's replaced Gimp for me lately.

Many years ago, I lost my work because of this "unique UI" and pledge never to use Gimp again, unless its behavior changed. When you open a non-Gimp file, for instance a PNG, and you want to update the source file, you need to "export" to PNG. And if you close the tab, Gimp warns you that your work isn't saved, because it hasn't been saved in its native xcf format. There is no way to know if the work has been saved t…

There is literally an "overwrite file" command in the file menu.

You didn't lose data because of bad UI but because you are illiterate. You just said it, it warns you. If you can't understand what "none of the images was saved" means, there is no UI that can save you except autosave. But autosave is something you clearly don't want in a photo/image editor, even smartphone apps do not autosave photo edits.

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#137

Post by somat »

lastdong wrote: post #9

Finally updated UI! I really hope it inspires more updates and brings in even more people, just like when Blender revamped their UX a few years back and saw an amazing boost in popularity.

With no disrespect to the blender team they are doing a bunch of good high quality ui work.

As a longtime casual blender user(since the late 90's version 1.7 on irix) that was less a "complete ui change" than it was a "we released a press release saying we did a complete ui change" the biggest actual difference was to swap the mouse buttons.

See, blenders ui was always good, it was designed as a professional tool, that is, designed to be used for many hours a day. it had a very quick and smooth operating interface flow. However it did have a reputation, deserved, as having a bit of a learning cliff. when your primary design paradigm can be best described as having a 101 button mouse. there is a bit of learning involved. but two things changed, one, blenders ui flow started being copied in other 3d programs and became more mainstream and acceptable. and two, the blender team kept working backwards, adding slower, but more discoverable paths to the tools.

Now I am not a member of the dev team, actually not involved in the community in any way so I am probably wrong, but the way I see it, there was a sort of very sticky reputation blender had that it was "too hard", this was mentally blocking a lot of potential users, so the only solution was to loudly say "hey we redid the whole ui to make it a lot easier", coughs, adds dark mode. it is still just as "hard" as it always was, but because people think it is easier they will take the time to learn it.

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#138

Post by prmoustache »

joaomacp wrote: post #22

I use Gimp from time to time, and often get frustrated with its... unique UI. It's nice to see they're hearing feedback and working on it :D A tip for others that feel the same: if you've used Photoshop before and are used to its UI, try the free Photopea website. It's a Photoshop "clone" that works really well in web (I believe it's a solo dev doing it too). It's replaced Gimp for me lately.

I've loaded photopea, krita and gimp side by side and really there are absolutely no major differences in UI.

This is the kind of dismissive posts thrown by people who haven't used gimp since 1999 and keep repeating the same lies every gimp release.

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#139

Post by medo-bear »

teleforce wrote: post #59
soulofmischief wrote: post #15

I started using GIMP around 2003 as a small child, and I remember being hyped for 3.0 and non-destructive editing even back then. I'm in my thirties now. Slow and steady wins the race. Congrats to the GIMP team, can't imagine the catharsis they will experience when 3.0 officially drops.

> Congrats to the GIMP team, can't imagine the catharsis they will experience when 3.0 officially drops. Thanks for the catharsis word, I have to look it up for the meaning. 20 years or equivalent to 5 times Olympics games, is a very long time to develop and improve a software. It's now comparable to the real-time Linux kernel, another open-source software albeit it's a kernel not a user application [1]. Any other op…

> Any other open-source software that has a comparable development time that I'm not aware of?

Emacs. Free and open source. User software. 40 (50) years in development. Mythical

Re: GIMP 3.0 is on the way

#140

Post by cmyk_student »

mdaniel wrote: post #131
soulofmischief wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the second paragraph of the article: > GTK 4 has been available for a few years now, and is on the project's radar, but the plan was always to finish the GTK 3 work first.

Maybe so, but did you actually open that "on the radar" link? It was closed WONTFIX because moving to the latest release of their bespoke library was considered "tech debt" :-/ https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/6440#note_12726... I actually think it was terribly disingenuous of LWN to use "on the radar" language pointing at a closed issue. Maybe there is another issue (hiding in the 12,000 issues) that is…

We actually had a Google Summer of Code project this summer that explored porting one of our main GTK3 widgets to be compatible with GTK4. It's definitely on our radar, but it's not a major focus at this point.
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