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A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

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Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#131

Post by pyrale »

briandear wrote: post #15
insane_dreamer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if it wasn't for France having primarily used nuclear power decades ago, Europe as a whole would be in a much much worse state when it comes to CO2 emissions. That makes it abundantly clear that nuclear needs to be a part of the mix when it comes to non-emission generating energy production.

Any data on how much France has slowed the decrease of global temperatures? Is there a “nuclear power to degrees saved” converter?

France being about 1% of world's population, any effort won't make a huge dent in a global phenomenon. Also, that 1% pollutes a lot more than the average, so the efforts made on the electricity front are offset by other issues.

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#132

Post by pyrale »

andix wrote: post #6
skywal_l wrote: post #4

A little faster and clearer one in my opinion: https://app.electricitymaps.com/

Copper Sushi doesn't load for me, but I'm wondering how it is going to beat the awesome electricitymaps. They have all the data and quite a good viewer.

They don't show the same thing. Electricity map is mostly focused on showing public market data about electricity and co2 emissions, while that site is a showcase of how a power flow works to calculate how electricity flows in the grid (not using real data of course, as the type of data used isn't public).

Both are interesting, I understand the site displayed in this article aims to show the complexity of the underlying system, which isn't shown by electricitymap.

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#133

Post by pyrale »

post-it wrote: post #16

Something I've wondered for a while: if the whole continent is on a synchronized grid, how can countries tell to or from whom they're exporting and importing electricity. I can see how they can measure their total imports or exports by comparing generation to consumption, but how do they figure out which neighbour they're getting electricity from / sending it to?

> how can countries tell to or from whom they're exporting and importing electricity.

In terms of market deals, TSOs can't really do that. What can be done is measure the power flowing in lines connecting two grids, and summing them you get the total power exported from one grid to another.

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#134

Post by [deleted] »

dismalaf wrote: post #56
Gud wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely false. Current flow is metered using current transformers. full disclosure: I install high voltage switchgear for a living.

Seeing current flow through switches isn't the same as seeing specifically where your power is coming from. Like, if power from several different sources flows into a single substation before it goes to your home, you know exactly which source created the electricity you're using? And if I purchase power from a 100% renewable company, is it always only electricity from their generators, never ever mixed in with power…

[deleted]

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#135

Post by johanneskanybal »

dasKrokodil wrote: post #123
insane_dreamer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if it wasn't for France having primarily used nuclear power decades ago, Europe as a whole would be in a much much worse state when it comes to CO2 emissions. That makes it abundantly clear that nuclear needs to be a part of the mix when it comes to non-emission generating energy production.

Let's see... nuclear power is super expensive, relies on finite uranium resources and there is no safe solution to store the waste. Do we really want to rely on this?

What other clean solution for variable reliable power do you know of?

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#137

Post by pyrale »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #129
pyrale wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data you provide quotes Germany being 50% more polluting than France per-GDP-unit, at the level France was at in 2007. The issue with it is that dividing by GDP rather than, say, population or total energy used is kind of disingenuous. For instance, France's 2007 GDP can't be compared to Germany's 2022 GDP, so it's extremely hard to have an idea of what you're comparing.

2007 is not in the 1990s which is the point I responded to. France was cleaning up in the 1990s but Germany is still doing better than France in even 1999. As you helpfully point out they were about France's 2007 level (when they had 70% nuclear electricity, 40% nuclear power, a hair below their absolute peak 41% nuclear which they hit a few years later) in 2022, so catching up to a global leader with lots of nuclear…

> so catching up to a global leader with lots of nuclear despite phasing out their own nuclear.

No catching up happened, because France also improved in the meantime, despite building no new plant in the 2007-2022 interval. And that's the issue with this measurement: it measures plenty of parasitic information. For instance, GDP growth between the 90's and now explains a large part of what you're highlighting.

Here's another chart from your site showing carbon intensity [1] which shows the improvement in carbon per energy generated is only a small part of the improvement shown in your graph.

And here's a chart [2] showing how GDP growth is the dominating factor for Germany's evolution in your graph.

[1]: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/production-consumption-ca...

[2]: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/kaya-identity-co2?country...

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#138

Post by kuschku »

skagenpilot wrote: post #7

When looking at France, at a zoom level where one can see the whole country, all the green dots are located next to nuclear power plants. It's a good reminder that the french grid is mostly powered by nuclear. It'd be nice to see the same map over summer to see if the different electric mix then gives birth to a different map.

The map is purely a simulation, not actual data. That's why the map has nuclear powerplants in Germany still producing power.

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#139

Post by moooo99 »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #90
moooo99 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, France gets 70% of its energy from nuclear, not 40%. No, it gets 70% of its electricity from nuclear.

[flagged]

Its not at all dishonest, I would argue it is a lot more honest than not mixing it.

The current discussion around energy sources is basically always centered on electricity, which is only part of the picture. Given that in most industrialized countries industry as well as heating accounts for a substantial share of primary energy use, its dishonest to not take those sectors into account.

Having 100% nuclear clean energy doesn't help you at all when electricity only accounts for 20% of your primary energy usage. That is not intellectually bankrupt, that is just common sense.

If electrification of heating as well as mobility continues to increase, looking at renewable energy as a share of primary energy consumption will paint a way clearer picture than any other stat.

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