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Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

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Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#131

Post by severino »

barryrandall wrote: post #80
Etheryte wrote: post #56

So to keep score, in the last year we've seen cables sabotaged between Finland and Germany, Lithuania and Sweden, Estonia and Sweden, Estonia and Finland. Any others I missed? You might say it's too early to call it sabotage, but the earliest two cable incidents were exactly the same, so it's hardly a coincidence at this point.

Russia warned that they were going to do this last week. I think it's pretty reasonable to conclude that 1) this was sabotage and 2) it was Russia.

Hey, hold your horses. Biden also threatened to blow up the Nord-Stream 2 pipeline, yet after the sabotage, everybody said "it was Russia". Now about this incident, to be consistent, I'm inclined to think it was the Americans.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#133

Post by [deleted] »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #74
tetrisgm wrote: post #60

The constant Russian interference, combined with the regular escalation from the jets patrolling, and the radar jamming, really needs to be dealt with. We're stuck between having to do timid actions and full NATO escalation. This feels like constant creep.

I agree. Do you want to sign up and go fight in a war? Or should other people besides you die? It's easy to say it "needs to be dealt with" but it's not an easy thing to do.

[deleted]

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#134

Post by JumpCrisscross »

PKop wrote: post #125
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're stuck between having to do timid actions and full NATO escalation If only there were someone applying pressure to Russia we could have fight for us!

So sacrifice more Ukrainian men for the meat grinder? What has that accomplished so far?

> sacrifice more Ukrainian men for the meat grinder?

To the extent there's a meat grinder, it's of Russians [1].

> What has that accomplished so far?

Russia's disqualifying itself as a conventional military threat for at least a generation. It's not yet there yet, largely because Ukraine has been unable to target its war marchine. But the startling inefficacy of its army and technology has been made clear. Moreover, the front line has been maintained in Ukraine: that keeps them further from NATO and thus American and European boys at home.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrain...

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#135

Post by dzhiurgis »

cynicalsecurity wrote: post #96
grapesodaaaaa wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe a strategic nuke on Kaliningrad if any provocation happens. Surely you must be joking about a first-strike nuclear provocation or larger. I would think almost anything other than a border incursion could be dealt with in other ways. Should Putin be held more accountable for his actions? Absolutely, but a nuclear response is not going to go well unless absolutely justified.

You are replying to a Russian bot, most likely.

Interesting twist…

I chose “provocation” because thats what russians often use (and call for nuking west pretty much every day for decades now).

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#136

Post by aguaviva »

severino wrote: post #131
barryrandall wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia warned that they were going to do this last week. I think it's pretty reasonable to conclude that 1) this was sabotage and 2) it was Russia.

Hey, hold your horses. Biden also threatened to blow up the Nord-Stream 2 pipeline, yet after the sabotage, everybody said "it was Russia". Now about this incident, to be consistent, I'm inclined to think it was the Americans.

Biden also threatened to blow up the Nord-Stream 2 pipeline,

Nope. He said it would be "ended", meaning the one thing that it obviously means -- that it would be shut off.

everybody said "it was Russia"

Nope -- some people said that.

The reasonable, level-headed people said: "We just don't know yet".

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#137

Post by tptacek »

severino wrote: post #131
barryrandall wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia warned that they were going to do this last week. I think it's pretty reasonable to conclude that 1) this was sabotage and 2) it was Russia.

Hey, hold your horses. Biden also threatened to blow up the Nord-Stream 2 pipeline, yet after the sabotage, everybody said "it was Russia". Now about this incident, to be consistent, I'm inclined to think it was the Americans.

I believe at this point we have a pretty good guess as to who sabotaged the pipeline, and it wasn't the US.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#138

Post by fuoqi »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #113
rdtsc wrote: post #82

> "it’s obvious this wasn’t an accidental anchor drop.” If it's "he who shall not be named", gotta admit, that's a clever strategy: ramp up sabotage and see how NATO/EU will feel about their "red lines", and how well does that article 5 really work in practice. Is it worth more than the paper it's printed on? Let's find out! People have been laughing at the West crossing multiple Russian "red lines" and the Russians…

> yet NATO/EU just looks weak and pathetic in the process Really? Russia, with the 6th largest army in the world, had to pull in Iran and Pyongyang to not get invaded by the 13th largest [1][2]. Moscow is being a nuisance. That doesn't make NATO or Europe look weak, it makes Russia look pathetic. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/13/world/europe/uk…

13th largest backed by the whole NATO and other US-aligned countries. They send almost everything they can outside of nuclear weapons, the most cutting edge military tech, and people (well, outside of a limited contingent of "advisors"). Let's be honest, without this backing the war would've ended in the first month as was drafted in Istanbul.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#139

Post by meiraleal »

polotics wrote: post #85
meiraleal wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Nato is a defensive alliance against any offensive act. Russia, ...as in: the mafia of the few profiteering rulers currently at the helm, is not fighting back anything. Firstly, its mad Ukrainian adventure has meant it has made its border very defence-free on its border with Nato countries. Secondly, it is constantly attacking in hybrid warfare mode, paying local lowlife to do propaganda graffiti and sabotage. The ap…

[flagged]

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#140

Post by barrenko »

PKop wrote: post #125
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're stuck between having to do timid actions and full NATO escalation If only there were someone applying pressure to Russia we could have fight for us!

So sacrifice more Ukrainian men for the meat grinder? What has that accomplished so far?

Well currently ensuring happy holidays for the western-er part of Europe.
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