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The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

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Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#131

Post by mbesto »

Yhippa wrote: post #95
basilgohar wrote: post #68

As someone who's worked in EdTech for around two decades, I know why people think this. It's what a lot people here have already said. Education is what is failing, EdTech didn't magically solve this. Just like money, you can't just throw tech at education and expect it to solve anything. There are too many profitable incentives to poor education that are conspiring to perpetuate it. An ill-educated populace is easie…

> There are too many profitable incentives to poor education that are conspiring to perpetuate it. An ill-educated populace is easier to manipulate, gravitate towards consumerism, and won't hold their leaders as accountable. Power generally resides with those who benefit from an ill-educated populace, so anything that would actually help educate children and people at large is discouraged. I want to believe this but…

> actively thinking about this and dedicating part of their work to misinforming the poor intentionally.

I'm reminded of the quote

> “No one involved in an extralegal activity thinks of themselves as nefarious. I'm a businessman, okay?" - Quark, DS9 S6E25

I don't believe anyone nefariously sits there and says "lets make sure people aren't educated" but I genuinely believe there are people who say "I did this thing and people keep voting me in to keep doing that thing or keep paying me to do that thing, so I'm going to continue doing it that way"

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#132

Post by ryanmcbride »

tombert wrote: post #44
donatj wrote: post #10

I work in EdTech, I have for a very long time now, and the problem I have seen is no one in education is willing to ACTUALLY let kids learn at their own level. The promise of EdTech was that kids could learn where they are. A kid who's behind can actually continue to learn rather than being left behind. A kid who's ahead can be nurtured. We had this. It worked well, in my opinion at least, and the number of complaint…

A bit tangential but related. I dropped out of college in 2012 and was one of the very lucky few who managed to find software engineering work almost immediately [1]. I had a bit of a complex about not having a degree, and a few times I tried going back only to drop out again because I would get bored; by the time I had gone back, I already knew enough stuff to be qualified as an engineer, and as such I didn't feel l…

I dropped out and became an engineer at almost the exact same time. I've thought about going back for a degree but I was always so horribly bad at school that it's scared me off. I was bad at it mainly for undiagnosed ADHD reasons that I'm now getting successfully treated, but I'm still worried that if I went back the same things would just happen again. I'd join a class, I'd already kind of know what they're teaching (or think I did), I'd get bored and be unable to pay attention, I'd suddenly find myself MASSIVELY behind.

I really hope this isn't just an ad or something because I'd really love if there was a decent way for me to get a degree without having to go back to a college campus at 35

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#133

Post by Retric »

csa wrote: post #94
LargeWu wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, specifically, is an example of an exam not measuring proficiency? If an exam is well designed, the student will need to figure out what is being asked and use their mastery to provide an answer.

> What, specifically, is an example of an exam not measuring proficiency Not op, but a few examples: 1. Test structures that reward good time management. The paper SAT is a good example of this. The early items in a section are (were?) easy, the middle items were medium difficulty, and the toughest items were towards the end. A good test take would manage their time so that they spent the most amount of time on quest…

I think test prep allowing people to increase SAT scores is actually a useful feature not a bug.

If you’re the kind of person who’s going to put extra effort to add a few points to your results, you are also the kind of person more likely to do well in collage classes.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#134

Post by dpkirchner »

sixo wrote: post #114
michaelrpeskin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's "equity" for you. We can't be unfair and give someone something that makes them better. It's easier to keep the top kids down than it is to lift the bottom kids up.

Equity really isn't the ideology doing this, except in a few cases, it's something else. I'd speculate the dominant effect is that people tend to dislike and resist what they have a hard time imagining: there's a strong bias towards easily-administrated uniformity, and ppl tend to enforce what they know and what they were brought up in themselves

Agreed, and that strong bias is likely driven by cost, not the equity boogeyman that causes many a jerked knee.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#135

Post by unsupp0rted »

donatj wrote: post #10

I work in EdTech, I have for a very long time now, and the problem I have seen is no one in education is willing to ACTUALLY let kids learn at their own level. The promise of EdTech was that kids could learn where they are. A kid who's behind can actually continue to learn rather than being left behind. A kid who's ahead can be nurtured. We had this. It worked well, in my opinion at least, and the number of complaint…

I've never seen a teacher that was comfortably capable with even 50% of whatever EdTech they're handed. How are they supposed to maximize the use of it?

I remember having to painfully sit through multi-hour presentations in which they'd explain how to use a hamburger menu to find the app settings, and half the participants furiously scribbled down notes so they wouldn't get lost later when they needed to find the settings without guidance, on their home computer.

This was only a decade ago and I doubt it's much better now. People who go into teaching aren't exactly the best & brightest most of the time. And the results speak for themselves.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#136

Post by boomchinolo78 »

Afton wrote: post #106
michaelrpeskin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's "equity" for you. We can't be unfair and give someone something that makes them better. It's easier to keep the top kids down than it is to lift the bottom kids up.

To be fair, it is less about "keeping top kids down" and more about "let's use our very scarce resources helping the bottom kids". Put that way it seems less malicious, and more like probably the right thing to do over all, while still being extremely frustrating if you are, or are the parent of, a 'top kid'. I know that in Seattle, I've been very frustrated with all the talk and promise of our school to provide enri…

I mean there are alternative models. Lee Kuan Yew from Singapore famously opposed the "helping the bottom kids at expense of the top ones". Is it really the right thing?

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#137

Post by pier25 »

bittercynic wrote: post #80
pier25 wrote: post #31

I worked for a couple of years in edTech and the reality is that all you need is a good teacher, pen and paper, and a chalkboard.

If you're trying to learn programming, it can be pretty handy to have a computer so you can try things and see what happens.

Indeed but "having a computer" is not edTech.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#138

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

panzagl wrote: post #53
throw_pm23 wrote: post #20

The teaching method I find best is a teacher explaining and writing with chalk on the blackboard, and the students taking handwritten notes on paper, asking whenever something is not clear. In other words, the most boring classical setup possible. Of course all the nuances and little details make all the difference: board picture, structure, teacher personality, pacing, choice of topic, interaction, motivation, excit…

My wife had one kid scream for 10 minutes yesterday and another throw a chair. Another just sat there and didn't do a thing for 7 hours. The Little House/Christmas Story model hasn't been able to work for a long time.

[dead]

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#139

Post by jppope »

Pretty fluffy article for someone who is a PhD, MEd, (AND Best Selling Author!).

I read the first half and skimmed the second half because the author couldn't make a point somewhere in the giant wall of text. Even if there was a point in there, the subject is too broad which is another question I have...

Anyway, in a broad (meaningless) rebuttal, I wouldn't say EdTech has failed- everyone I know has learned how to do something real they didn't know how to do before from youtube. Easy examples: basic plumbing, basic electrical, playing guitar, playing drums, systems design, how to improve in their sports, software stuff... even my dad learned how to properly put up a gutter on their house recently.

What I'm observing it seems like people are learning more its probably just schools getting in the way.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#140

Post by kortilla »

basilgohar wrote: post #68

As someone who's worked in EdTech for around two decades, I know why people think this. It's what a lot people here have already said. Education is what is failing, EdTech didn't magically solve this. Just like money, you can't just throw tech at education and expect it to solve anything. There are too many profitable incentives to poor education that are conspiring to perpetuate it. An ill-educated populace is easie…

I don’t think this is the case for several core reasons:

- higher income people spend more money. The middle and upper class is by far the largest market and source of tax revenue.

- poverty generally turns areas into low trust higher theft spots that need expensive security.

- high income places generally have good public schools because a majority do know how important education is

- this requires a pretty vast conspiracy of people saying “keep people dumb so we can profit”, which I haven’t heard of at all

I think the much simpler explanation is that there is no accountability for inept pockets in the education system. Schools can’t really be punished for sucking and parents can’t move their kids in most states without just switching to private. There is no feedback loop for broken schools.

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