In stories like this... I assume the patient was billed due to some automatic bureaucracy?
In this question, how does "some automatic bureaucracy" differ from simple normal functioning of businesses?
Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill
131–140 of 424 posts
Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
People drive with a suspended license all the time. How else are getting to your job? Getting groceries? We pretend like driving is only a privilege, but it's more necessary than most rights that OSHA or other agencies have "discovered".
It’s hard to get your license suspended! You have to severely screw up, usually more than once. If you depend on a personal vehicle for your livelihood, you should avoid it!
Going out on a limb and guessing people for whom losing a vehicle is existential have the same executive-function issues as someone who will get their license suspended and then drive on it. (Also, poverty. Registration and renewal costs money.)
Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know what happened in this case, but it's possible that the bicycle stopped at the stop sign before the Waymo did, and then proceeded (behind the truck), entering the intersection before the Waymo. If so, there's nothing wrong with the cyclist's actions. What I mean is: if the bicycle got to the intersection before the Waymo, then it would have had right of way. Of course, it's also possible that the cyclist…
That’s not the law. Vehicles take turns at an intersection - there’s no total queuing order based on arrival time. At a contended intersection, it should never be the case that two vehicles coming from the same lane take consecutive turns.
That’s not the law. Vehicles take turns at an intersection - there’s no total queuing order based on arrival time.
If the Waymo stopped at the intersection after the bicycle stopped at the intersection, or if the Waymo's path was blocked and it was thus not entering the intersection, the bicycle would not be required to yield.
At a contended intersection, it should never be the case that two vehicles coming from the same lane take consecutive turns.
1. The lorry arrives (from the North) first and stops at the stop line.
2. The lorry begins turning at the intersection, and is completely past the stop line but still in the intersection.
3. The bicycle arrives (from the North) and stops at the stop line.
4. The Waymo arrives (from the South) and stops at the stop line.
5. The Waymo waits at the stop line because, if it were to proceed, its path would intersect with the turning lorry's path.
6. The bicycle proceeds into the intersection, following the lorry.
How would the cyclist's actions in this scenario violate something in California Vehicle Code sections 21800 to 21809?
DMV handbook: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/california-driver-handboo...
Law: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...
Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just noting that the bicyclist is fully at fault for trying to jump the queue at a 4 way stop, and it sounds like they were going in a different direction than the turning truck as well. Hard to pin that one on Waymo, though I do feel like Waymo cars tend to drive a bit "city aggressive" at times, like asserting their right of way, sticking close to the car in front, etc.
I don't know what happened in this case, but it's possible that the bicycle stopped at the stop sign before the Waymo did, and then proceeded (behind the truck), entering the intersection before the Waymo. If so, there's nothing wrong with the cyclist's actions. What I mean is: if the bicycle got to the intersection before the Waymo, then it would have had right of way. Of course, it's also possible that the cyclist…
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Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill
#135As a bicyclist, I'm constantly told how dangerous bicycles are. Usually, I get a blank look when I explain, bicycles are very safe, it is the cars that are the dangerous part of the equation. Now I'll have to add fast billing ambulances to the list of dangers.
Self driving cars are amazing in SF. I cycle there I feel much safer when there’s a self driving car behind me. Waymos, zooxes and cruises never accelerate hard to suddenly cut a turn in front of me rather than waiting behind me to turn across the cycle lane. They never get angry when there is no cycle lane and I’m forced to take up a full lane for a stretch. They have cold machine patience and attitude and to get aw…
> I can see a future where humans are barred from driving. 40k deaths a year in the USA from humans driving and a fear of rightfully using the road for non driving activities due to poor human behaviour. I’m actually pretty hopeful we get there.
Yes, I believe that in the distant future humans will look back on the late 20th and early 21st centuries and be appalled that people were ever allowed to operate cars like this. It will be like how we think about ancient practices of human sacrifice or gladiatorial combat.
Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill
#136In stories like this... I assume the patient was billed due to some automatic bureaucracy?
Their lawyer probably would have insisted they bill it like any other run. Not doing so could be construed as admitting fault.
Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill
#137In Capitalist America, ambulance chases YOU.
Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill
#138As a bicyclist, I'm constantly told how dangerous bicycles are. Usually, I get a blank look when I explain, bicycles are very safe, it is the cars that are the dangerous part of the equation. Now I'll have to add fast billing ambulances to the list of dangers.
According to the NTSB, cyclists have 79 deaths per billion miles traveled. For comparison, cars were 11 per billion miles. Around 2/3rds of bicycle fatalities involved a motor vehicle. So even if we solved car-bicycle collisions, the fatality rate per mile would still be much higher than driving. Bicycles are great, but compared to cars they are dangerous. 1. See page 39 of https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/…
I don't think you can 1:1 compare those stats.
Most people just wouldn't have the time to travel as far by bike as they do by car, even if they wanted to. They'd take some other form of transit for long drives.
Car drivers do 13500 miles/year on average, even at a very sporty 20mi/h per (average!) a cyclist would have to ride full 29 days/year non-stop to match that.
Thus, a better measure would be accidents/hour of operation. I bet most avid cyclists do < 1000 miles/year and few do more than 3000 and that would mostly close the gap in death/hour of use.
Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill
#139This is one of the common accidents, the "right hook". https://velosurance.com/blog/how-to-avoid-most-common-riding... https://www.fcgov.com/traffic/pdf/bicycle-crashes.pdf
I mostly walk these days but when I did bike I had these crash patterns memorized so I could avoid them.
Re: Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill
#140As a bicyclist, I'm constantly told how dangerous bicycles are. Usually, I get a blank look when I explain, bicycles are very safe, it is the cars that are the dangerous part of the equation. Now I'll have to add fast billing ambulances to the list of dangers.
You could say that jumping out of a plane without a parachute isn't dangerous, it's the ground that's dangerous. Cyclists make mistakes, make bad judgments, take big risks, just like car drivers. They are human too. You could say cyclists have a bigger incentive to avoid problems, but no driver I know wants to hit someone and injure them, and cyclists I know become inured to the risks after riding for years without i…
All of the dangerous interactions that I've had while riding were caused by automobile drivers, and not myself.