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XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

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Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#131

Post by mxuribe »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #88
mxuribe wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its not only the clients...Rather its what the server side supports and to ensure clients align with that....And i think among a group of techy friends, well, they can coordinate the proper settings...but it becomes thorny when involving some not-techie buddies...Of course its possible, but, you know, the onboarding process is less than ideal. I say that not being an xmpp guru of coruse, so YMMV. > I am reall…

If you want to onboard a group of people you don't point them at "XMPP" the technology. You point them at a service or product that is built on XMPP, like Snikket.

Yes, agreed, i was more referring to whether a particular server instance for example implemented X or Y extension from the base xmpp protocol...and you'd want to ensure that whatever client and server combo is aligned to support those X and Y extensions. That's all i meant.

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#132

Post by SamWhited »

shadowgovt wrote: post #124
SamWhited wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What servers don't have good defaults these days, and what clients need any configuration at all beyond the username and password? I don't think this is true. Also Snikket meets your Docker requirements if you're into containers.

Snikket looks good. The last time I tried to get jabberd set up on an Ubuntu install, the port-opening and config became a nightmare and induced me to give up. No good signal on why it wasn't working.

oh interesting, fair enough; I didn't know jabberd still existed! FWIW, Prosody, Ejabberd, OpenFire, etc. all mostly have sane defaults for a basic chat system (both in terms of performance and features). They won't be an exact match of course, but all the basic stuff should be there.

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#133

Post by SamWhited »

tcfhgj wrote: post #128
SamWhited wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or I did my research and made an informed decision which to work on. I didn't start working on one then only decide to dislike the other based on sunk cost fallacy. Matrix already existed when I got into doing XMPP stuff, and I looked into both.

It's not about back then, but about when you write comments

So any negative comment is somehow bias and I should be doing Matrix instead? I don't get what you're getting at.

I am still aware of both protocols, I still don't like Matrix and think XMPP is "good enough", or at least the best choice. Having an opinion doesn't make me biased against one or the other.

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#134

Post by gog »

MattJ100 wrote: post #130
gog wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like you need server support for that as well (makes sense), to bad Prosody doesn't have it in a released version but you have to build it manually.

No need to build anything, it's not a binary or anything like that. Prosody is just a very plugin-oriented project (plugins are written in Lua). For better or worse, we (the Prosody team) have certain standards for inclusion of community modules in the core codebase, and mod_cloud_notify doesn't quite meet them yet. On Debian and derived systems, you can just 'apt install prosody-modules', and on other systems you ca…

Thank you, I was reading https://github.com/monal-im/Monal/wiki/Considerations-for-XM... and misread the requirements, 0.13 is required for SASL2, not for cloud_notify.

I really like Prosody because it was trivial to reuse the same user store I use for Postfix/Dovecot so every email account gets an XMPP account automatically.

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#135

Post by ptman »

aine wrote: post #111
ptman wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beeper (built on matrix) has convenient bridges to lots of services. You can use the hosted service or self-host ( https://github.com/beeper/bridge-manager ) or you can host plain matrix using https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy/

"plain matrix" sounds a bit wrong - we put great effort into maintaining numerous of components of the playbook, including bridges, so it has a lot to offer. Alternatively, you can just get a managed server on https://etke.cc Disclaimer: I'm Aine of etke.cc, and MDAD is our project

I'm sorry, bad choice of words. I didn't mean to imply that it's worse in any way. I use it myself. Uncustomized? Vanilla? Upstream? IIRC Beeper has patched various things.

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#136

Post by tcfhgj »

SamWhited wrote: post #133
tcfhgj wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about back then, but about when you write comments

So any negative comment is somehow bias and I should be doing Matrix instead? I don't get what you're getting at. I am still aware of both protocols, I still don't like Matrix and think XMPP is "good enough", or at least the best choice. Having an opinion doesn't make me biased against one or the other.

> I don't get what you're getting at.

Not being paid for the work on something doesn't imply no bias towards it.

> Having an opinion doesn't make me biased against one or the other.

It might: Confirmation bias

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#137

Post by rakoo »

shadowgovt wrote: post #65
righthand wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, because developing tech is about winning marker-share only. That’s exactly why XMPP was developed in the first place.

Market share matters for a communication system though. Why bother to run a server or install a client if there's nobody to talk to?

Market share only matters if there's a market, ie concurrent proposals. In an open world, concurrent proposals make no sense: let all applications talk with any other, let all protocols take inspiration from each other to build the best infrastructure.

There's nobody to talk to because companies explicitly make it so, not because a protocol is better than another

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#138

Post by rakoo »

cyberax wrote: post #76

I hope XMPP just goes away and stops distracting people from more productive avenues. It can't be fixed. It's dead. Matrix is the modern replacement. I used XMPP to implement a chat client within our application around 2012. It was a freaking nightmare. The roster system, the incompatibilities, the lack of standardized synchronization, the never-working group messaging.

"I tried this thing 12 years ago and it sucked, therefore it still sucks today and will suck forever"
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