Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers • Hacker News Board

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#131

Post by matt_heimer » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:00 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #59

FireBeyond wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. And a lot of spam. A few months ago there was a little flame war between a few people. Company posted an ad and someone replied "this is spam, and you don't respond, just keep posting the same ad", and the company replied "no, I own the company and hand write this job ad every month to fit our future needs" which was patently a lie (exact same headcount, exact same three positions, every month for the las…

It's against the rules to call out hiring companies in the thread, primarily because we don't want off-topic arguments and because it would be too easy to exploit it for shenanigans. But since people have been increasingly saying that this is a problem, let's do something about it. My current thought is to add a new instruction at the top asking companies to please only post in the thread if they're committed to resp…

Everyone? Applicants are using AI to mass apply for jobs. Not everyone deserves a response.

Why not: Please only post jobs if you are committed to interviewing and filling the position in the next 3 months. Accounts posting the same job opening for 6 months may be banned.

In this market if it takes 6+ months to find someone there is a fundamental problem with the opening.

At the very least it should be: "Please only post a job in this thread if you are committed to responding to all qualified applicants."

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#132

Post by la64710 » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:00 PM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #7

On this topic, do y'all think the HN Who's Hiring thread has ghost jobs? I know I've applied to one and never had back (a few years ago).

Also along with ghost jobs do we have ghost candidates? Every job posting on LinkedIn have hundred plus applicants within the first two hours. Maybe many of the applicants are not eligible but this phenomenon points to a massive increase in labor supply for tech jobs. Automation and opening up competition globally is gutting out most of the tech jobs it seems.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#133

Post by mmarian » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:01 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #115

mmarian wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about mentioning in the who's hiring post that people can email HN if they think someone posted in bad faith. The slight inconvenience should turn off people who complain just for the sake of it, and other readers won't be discouraged by seeing the complaints. The downside is extra admin for you, of course.

I don't think I can handle many more emails*. But beyond that—what would we do? We don't have the cycles to arbitrate these things; nor the skill; nor the interest. * was going to make a Mr. Creosote reference but thought better of it

Fair enough. I feel you'd face the same issues with the original idea as well. But I can't think of a better solution.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#134

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:02 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#135

Post by tdrz » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:02 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #59

FireBeyond wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. And a lot of spam. A few months ago there was a little flame war between a few people. Company posted an ad and someone replied "this is spam, and you don't respond, just keep posting the same ad", and the company replied "no, I own the company and hand write this job ad every month to fit our future needs" which was patently a lie (exact same headcount, exact same three positions, every month for the las…

It's against the rules to call out hiring companies in the thread, primarily because we don't want off-topic arguments and because it would be too easy to exploit it for shenanigans. But since people have been increasingly saying that this is a problem, let's do something about it. My current thought is to add a new instruction at the top asking companies to please only post in the thread if they're committed to resp…

I like the idea! Possibly add an additional rule that they should stop advertising the same position if they didn't fill it within, say, 4 months.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#136

Post by singlepaynews » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:03 PM UTC

I think there’s a legitimate market opportunity here. I am seeking a cofounder to build the job board that vets employers, and makes money by charging candidates to access it.

The problem to be solved, imo, is ghost listings. - I don’t care if a company ghosts me because they hired someone else - I care if I spend time filling out applications for jobs that don’t exist

I’m not sure how to make participation by the employer tractable. They can’t exactly be mandated to hire, can they? Unless I’m trapped in a prison of the mind that seems like too risky of a proposition for them.

That said, as a candidate I would happily pay $USD/month for access to a job board where I know that the job as posted is definitely for real and definitely getting filled in a certain timeframe. I don’t care if my particular resume gets read, or replied to. I only care that the phenomena of “ghost job” is nonexistent in the walled-garden that I’m paying for access to.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#137

Post by wood_spirit » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:04 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #59

FireBeyond wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. And a lot of spam. A few months ago there was a little flame war between a few people. Company posted an ad and someone replied "this is spam, and you don't respond, just keep posting the same ad", and the company replied "no, I own the company and hand write this job ad every month to fit our future needs" which was patently a lie (exact same headcount, exact same three positions, every month for the las…

It's against the rules to call out hiring companies in the thread, primarily because we don't want off-topic arguments and because it would be too easy to exploit it for shenanigans. But since people have been increasingly saying that this is a problem, let's do something about it. My current thought is to add a new instruction at the top asking companies to please only post in the thread if they're committed to resp…

This is a bigger, longer term thought, but…

perhaps upvotes and downvotes can be subtly weighed by karma? This would give proven contributors more trust. In the case of job posts, it would enlist them in zapping the spam they recognise month after month?

And beyond that, beyond applicability to job posts, perhaps voting can be a collaborative filtering bubble instead of absolutes? This makes spammers and voting rings end up in an echo chamber? And perhaps for normal posts instead of there being an early top level comment that gets to the top and stays there and monopolises the conversation, you get more variety and people more easily find the conversation they come for?

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#138

Post by UncleOxidant » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:05 PM UTC

ouddv wrote: post #86

UncleOxidant wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is, in fact, a US citizen who can fill any software engineering role a US company has. Right now I suspect you're probably right. But 2 or 3 years ago? If you're right then why would companies want to go through all of the extra paperwork and hoops to hire an H1B right now? Maybe the answer is "they can pay less"? But I'm not sure if it's actually all that much less than they could pay someone who's been look…

At large tech companies, the pay is entirely driven by level and rating; so there's no savings in salary; just added costs to comply with the directive. It's endlessly frustrating that the US government wants to centrally plan my hiring decisions.

Ok, so why are you hiring H1B's at this point then if there's "just added costs to comply with the directive"?

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#139

Post by astrange » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:06 PM UTC

mantas wrote: post #92

astrange wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The model that Americans would take any job if the wages were high enough is simple but obviously false. For manual labor there's no amount of money you could pay Americans to be farmworkers. For desk jobs there's no amount that'll overcome Americans' cultural belief that you can't do math unless you were born as a special sort of person who is "good at math".

1 million/year? There’s definitely an amount that’d allow to find enough workers locally. The other question is how much would the produce cost and how many people would be willing to pay.

Once it gets that high, they don't need to work because they can retire.

(Or buy the farmland themselves and resume paying migrants to do it.)

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#140

Post by wood_spirit » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:08 PM UTC

thegrim33 wrote: post #82

Well I opened the article, near the beginning I saw the text: "81% of recruiters admitted to posting ads for positions that were fake or already filled." Instantly that felt completely insane to me, my bullshit detector went off the chart, so since they provided a source, I followed up on the source to see the evidence for myself. What do you know, the source is from a "my perfect resume" website that apparently cond…

The really common reason in my experience is there is a job that is made to fit a specific internal applicant but it has to advertised “because of process”. Often the manager is not even telling recruiting that they have already picked the candidate.