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'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

theguardian.com

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Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#131

Post by elmerfud »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #129
elmerfud wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because everyone uses it for that purpose doesn't automatically make it the best tool or the right tool for the job. In the beginning when it was a spreadsheet that meant to do spreadsheets stuff it was fine because it fulfilled that purpose. The problem is users who failed to learn any other tool continued to use it for things it was not adapted to do. Microsoft being a company that likes money and it simply be…

[flagged]

To take your Hammer example it really depends on what you're doing. If the only thing you're doing is pounding framing nails then one framing hammer is generally suitable. If you need to pound framing nails and you need to do metal work and you need to do fine finish work you will need a number of different hammers to accomplish those jobs and have a good outcome in each task.

Your argument is that Excel is fine at being the one hammer that can do absolutely everything as good as purpose-built software is. That is factually wrong. I know it tries to be and it's okay at being average at many of these tasks and if average is good enough for you then go ahead and do it.

I for one choose to frame my house by using either a framing hammer or a power nailer that's made to drive framing nails. When I do my finish work I don't want mark up on my trim with big old Hammer marks from a framing hammer, so I choose to use a hammer that's made for finish nails or a brad nail gun or another tool that's made to do it so it looks professional.

You are welcome to live in a house that is built like trash and is marred up with "apprentice marks" as they're called. I will choose to be the master Craftsman.

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#132

Post by zo1 »

financetechbro wrote: post #74
vlovich123 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GSheets is the good enough factor and the collaborative features were baked in from the start. I feel like MS struggles a bit in that respect. Look at the instructions for collaborating in Excel: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/collaborate-on-ex...

I’ve had the pleasure of investing many hours across excel and gsheets. I’m currently at an org that uses MS suite and excel collaboration across OneDrive & Sharepoint is almost seamless now as long as long as you’re on the cloud

I don't think people are remotely aware how Good MS tools are atm when it comes to collaboration and integration with their "other" suit of tools. Yes, it's ugly sharepoint under the hood somewhere, but for all intents and purposes it looks and works like magic when I'm collaborating in real-time with my coworkers over any sort of MS document. This whole "real time collaboration" comment as a reason to prefer some half-baked and confusing "GSheets" web app is frankly confusing.

Though, now that I think about it, it kind of makes sense: We are in an industry where the newcomers are being indoctrinated via evangelists and overall Schadenfreude, into using half-baked "IDEs" like VSCode.

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#133

Post by heraldgeezer »

vlovich123 wrote: post #61
baq wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers will tell them that their serious sheets only work in excel and it’s similar enough that they’ll figure it out and they’ll be right on both counts.

Depends on the profession. The company might shell out money for accounting to use excel. But PMs, engineers, TPMs, etc etc are likely to be told “hey we’re using google workplaces and aren’t going to buy you an excel license” unless you can make a very convincing case. That represents a shrinking pie for Excel even if specific professional use remains on Excel while everyone else moves on. Similar stuff happened wit…

I worked for an MSP in Europe, so IT provider.

No company used Google Workspace. All where Office 365.

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#134

Post by lolinder »

elmerfud wrote: post #124
jimnotgym wrote: post #114

I like the programmers on here telling the professional users that Excel is overblown and they could just use Numbers, OpenOffice or Google sheets. Imagine an accountant coming on here and telling you that you don't need vi, emacs, sublime text or VSCode. You certainly don't need your IDEs. After all it's perfectly possible to code in Notepad. You also don't need your languages. BASIC was perfectly good. The killer f…

Just because everyone uses it for that purpose doesn't automatically make it the best tool or the right tool for the job. In the beginning when it was a spreadsheet that meant to do spreadsheets stuff it was fine because it fulfilled that purpose. The problem is users who failed to learn any other tool continued to use it for things it was not adapted to do. Microsoft being a company that likes money and it simply be…

> Just because everyone uses it for that purpose doesn't automatically make it the best tool or the right tool for the job.

On the contrary, in many domains in life the right tool for the job is almost always going to be the one that everyone is already using. It's usually not the most satisfying tool or the most elegant, and its use will usually make perfectionists scream, but if you're actually interested in getting anything done you'll default to using the tool that the human beings in the system are already comfortable with unless it would be completely impossible to do so.

As another example: the NEMA connector is objectively bad compared to modern alternatives, but it's not going anywhere. The benefits of standardization usually outweigh the benefits of optimization, and you usually don't benefit from being the first to move to the "better" solution.

(I realize that last part is difficult to swallow for a forum that's focused on startups trying to disrupt the existing, standardized tech.)

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#135

Post by Etheryte »

candiddevmike wrote: post #123
jimnotgym wrote: post #114

I like the programmers on here telling the professional users that Excel is overblown and they could just use Numbers, OpenOffice or Google sheets. Imagine an accountant coming on here and telling you that you don't need vi, emacs, sublime text or VSCode. You certainly don't need your IDEs. After all it's perfectly possible to code in Notepad. You also don't need your languages. BASIC was perfectly good. The killer f…

I would temper your hot take. Nothing you described is a feature specific to Excel from what I can tell, and using Excel in front of an ERP is most likely an anti-pattern as the ERP is meant to handle reporting and authorization in a centralized way.

Nearly everyone who knows how to use a computer knows how to use Excel to some extent. That is a feature of Excel that pretty much no other software solution can bring to the table.

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#136

Post by thibautg »

baq wrote: post #125
gosub100 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very uncommon to use them for any common expenses like groceries or gas. I use them for a quarterly HOA payment, yearly CPA tax preparation, petty government fines and fees, and donations to charity. Generally things that you mail a payment for and you want a record of the payment. Most of these I could do electronically but I don't really save any time doing so because of the friction of setting up the payment.

> Generally things that you mail a payment for I’m sorry but this sentence makes absolutely zero sense to my europoor brain. What do you mean when you say mail a payment and why would you need to do that. I literally lack the imagination.

I don't understand either, but I would be genuinely interested in what "mailing a payment" means in practice. Is it like sending a check by mail or some kind of paper bank transfer?

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#137

Post by heraldgeezer »

vlovich123 wrote: post #2

Quotes from people 30 and above which sounds about right. Is anyone these days growing up using Excel over Google Sheets? You used to have to pirate Excel and Google just gives it away for free with a free email account.

I worked for an MSP in Europe, so IT provider.

No company used Google Workspace. All where Office 365.

You use what the company wants you to use :)

If you zoomerettes try to use your own google account you will get flagged for data extraction. :)

Also the web version of office is free, did you know? https://www.office.com/

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#138

Post by heraldgeezer »

ddingus wrote: post #82
xbmcuser wrote: post #41

This is one of the things LLM's have helped me move off excel. I have an office pc that has microsoft windows + office and home pc that only has linux mint and libreoffice. Previously for anything related to excel I would by habit remote into my office pc to get it done. I started asking how to do stuff on libreoffice on chat gpt and google gemini. And looking at how detailed explanations we have on how to use spread…

That is a great skill to have. When I set Win 11 or earlier version PCs for others, I always load up Void Tools "Everything" and then swing by FossHUB for the full set of tools. Libre Office, Inkscape, and many more all go on the machine. And then I explain what they just got and what it is worth. Almost everyone ends up being able to use the OSS tools. Doing this saves a ton of money!

Honestly for office just massgrave it

The rest, yes I love OSS tools on Windows.

But have fun when their important word docs get garbled

(it's an example, do not come after me with some "uuuh acually word docs open fine now")

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#139

Post by gjsman-1000 »

elmerfud wrote: post #131
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

To take your Hammer example it really depends on what you're doing. If the only thing you're doing is pounding framing nails then one framing hammer is generally suitable. If you need to pound framing nails and you need to do metal work and you need to do fine finish work you will need a number of different hammers to accomplish those jobs and have a good outcome in each task. Your argument is that Excel is fine at b…

But what if you need to do all of those kinds of work every day, are not allowed to bring your own tools, and do not know which house you will be visiting each morning?

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#140

Post by [deleted] »

oneplane wrote: post #130
jimnotgym wrote: post #114

I like the programmers on here telling the professional users that Excel is overblown and they could just use Numbers, OpenOffice or Google sheets. Imagine an accountant coming on here and telling you that you don't need vi, emacs, sublime text or VSCode. You certainly don't need your IDEs. After all it's perfectly possible to code in Notepad. You also don't need your languages. BASIC was perfectly good. The killer f…

Those feelings are nice, but Excel in most context is just a liability. The intersection where a spreadsheet is the right tool for the job, and the job is performed by someone who doesn't have many options is pretty small. In business cases, the risk with home grown spreadsheet 'workflows' is pretty big, and in home usage cases you don't really need more than just a basic spreadsheet. The intersection is perhaps wher…

[deleted]
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