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AWS CEO tells workers to quit if they don't want to come back to the office

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Re: AWS CEO tells workers to quit if they don't want to come back to the office

#131

Post by consteval »

kcplate wrote: post #121
consteval wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s divisive to demand WFH for a single class of worker ... which nobody does. Rather people simply imagine they do, because they're intellectually lazy. We go through this same conversation again and again and again. "Oh Starbucks workers make 15 an hour now?? Who do they think they are! I work construction and only make 12!" "Oh Bucees gives three weeks vacation? Well I work much harder and I don't get any!" "Wa…

You are never going convince someone whose job will never be able to shift to remote that you are pulling up anyone but yourself with a crusade for WFH. You just won’t get the sympathy because having to write code in an office is not equivalent to working in a sweatshop and frankly everyone seems to know this with the exception of the opinionated tech class. So you should realize that you are your only advocate in th…

> You just won’t get the sympathy

You absolutely will, you guys are just incredibly short-sighted.

I know because I worked food service for a decade. I've worked hard jobs where I'm on my feet 9+ hours a day. People in those positions are shockingly class-conscious. In my experience, much more so than software engineers.

Software engineers have a tendency to fall into Delusions of Grandeur, IMO. They might convince themselves they're not working class because instead of making 60,000 they make 100,000. So, then they justify a ton of different mistreatment because they think they're unique.

It's self-destructive, of course. You gain nothing by being content with RTO. You also gain nothing by exhibiting company loyalty. You gain very little by moving up. The waiters, cooks, and bathroom attendants understand this. The software engineers are still working on it.

I agree the best INDIVIDUAL option is to find a different company. But if everyone shared my mentality this would be fixed on an industry level. But they don't, a lot share your mindset, wherein they are weak, and they are subordinate. At one of my previous jobs, we fought for breaks. If people such as yourself were around, we probably would've never gotten the right to eat at work.

Re: AWS CEO tells workers to quit if they don't want to come back to the office

#132

Post by locopati »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #117
locopati wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. Remote companies and many hybrid companies will obviously make that part of your contract. When the fully remote company I worked for was acquired by a hybrid company, being guaranteed remote was a part of all of our contracts.

I worked for a fully remote company, and even though they did not have any physical offices to even have us come into, they refused to change in the contract where they reserved the right to have you work in a traditional office if they desired. They still are 100% remote to this day

sounds like they don't have the courage of their convictions then... i wouldn't work for a place that wouldn't put it in writing

I'd insert the clause and let them challenge it

Re: AWS CEO tells workers to quit if they don't want to come back to the office

#133

Post by wordofx »

consteval wrote: post #130
wordofx wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. This is reality. Business’s provide a service or product. They pay people to perform tasks to deliver the service or product. Just because you want to work from home doesn’t mean you get to. Blue collar jobs don’t get the luxury of working from home. But apparently people like you feel like you’re above everyone else because you have a white collar job so you’re entitled to work from home. Get a grip. You don’t g…

> Get a grip Au Contraire, you should get a grip because you're being very pathetic. It's one thing to be contempt with actions that harm you. That's just sad. But actively begging for it is nothing short of pathetic. Call me entitled, I don't care. The reality is people like me end up happy and people like you ensure your own misery. It's so unbelievable that people don't even need to make you miserable - in the eve…

Lol so now anyone who works in the office is “miserable”. You’re clutching at straws mate.

Re: AWS CEO tells workers to quit if they don't want to come back to the office

#134

Post by consteval »

wordofx wrote: post #133
consteval wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Get a grip Au Contraire, you should get a grip because you're being very pathetic. It's one thing to be contempt with actions that harm you. That's just sad. But actively begging for it is nothing short of pathetic. Call me entitled, I don't care. The reality is people like me end up happy and people like you ensure your own misery. It's so unbelievable that people don't even need to make you miserable - in the eve…

Lol so now anyone who works in the office is “miserable”. You’re clutching at straws mate.

I never said that. I said being against WFH is your own misery, because it's true.

Even if you LOVE the office, you should be encouraging WFH because it's better for you. Less traffic, less driving, higher quality of life for you to reach the office.

But you advocate things that directly harm you. That's pathetic, sorry there's just no other way to say it. It's not a virtue to be self-destructive, it's just kind of sad.

Also business owners do not care if you bend over for them. They're fucking you and leaving before you get up in the morning - talking real sweet to them won't make them like you. Again, you just look pitiful and nobody really cares and nobody is clapping.

Re: AWS CEO tells workers to quit if they don't want to come back to the office

#135

Post by wordofx »

consteval wrote: post #134
wordofx wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol so now anyone who works in the office is “miserable”. You’re clutching at straws mate.

I never said that. I said being against WFH is your own misery, because it's true. Even if you LOVE the office, you should be encouraging WFH because it's better for you. Less traffic, less driving, higher quality of life for you to reach the office. But you advocate things that directly harm you. That's pathetic, sorry there's just no other way to say it. It's not a virtue to be self-destructive, it's just kind of s…

WFH is worse. Juniors don’t get the mentoring they need. Collaboration is a fraction of in person. People become siloed. Knowledge is not shared. Knowing when roadblocks occur becomes more difficult. Productivity drops.

Sounds like you’ve worked at terrible companies with terrible people. Instead of finding a good company. Then again I haven’t worked at a company with more than 30 employees and so I get paid well and have access to walk 5 meters to talk to the CEO/Owner.

Re: AWS CEO tells workers to quit if they don't want to come back to the office

#136

Post by kcplate »

consteval wrote: post #131
kcplate wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are never going convince someone whose job will never be able to shift to remote that you are pulling up anyone but yourself with a crusade for WFH. You just won’t get the sympathy because having to write code in an office is not equivalent to working in a sweatshop and frankly everyone seems to know this with the exception of the opinionated tech class. So you should realize that you are your only advocate in th…

> You just won’t get the sympathy You absolutely will, you guys are just incredibly short-sighted. I know because I worked food service for a decade. I've worked hard jobs where I'm on my feet 9+ hours a day. People in those positions are shockingly class-conscious. In my experience, much more so than software engineers. Software engineers have a tendency to fall into Delusions of Grandeur, IMO. They might convince t…

> I've worked hard jobs where I'm on my feet 9+ hours a day.

So have I and in an industrial laundry no less—picture a big steaming hot and humid warehouse loading dirty shop rags and food service mats into giant washing vats. I can assure you that no point in time was I ever worried about the working conditions of the accounting clerks in the air conditioned offices in their comfortable chairs on their ass all day. Frankly back then, if I heard them complaining about actually having to show up at the office, I would probably grab a handful of greasy and chemical soaked rags with machine shop shards stuck to them and pelt them with them.

Re: AWS CEO tells workers to quit if they don't want to come back to the office

#137

Post by thedevilslawyer »

sublinear wrote: post #112

If there are this many workers unhappy and about to quit, I wonder if this is a watershed moment for Amazon as a company and its investors. AWS is a huge part of their revenue isn't it? This also affects pretty much every tech company since they all use AWS to some extent.

> If there are this many workers unhappy

Yes

> and about to quit

No.

Re: AWS CEO tells workers to quit if they don't want to come back to the office

#139

Post by consteval »

wordofx wrote: post #135
consteval wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said that. I said being against WFH is your own misery, because it's true. Even if you LOVE the office, you should be encouraging WFH because it's better for you. Less traffic, less driving, higher quality of life for you to reach the office. But you advocate things that directly harm you. That's pathetic, sorry there's just no other way to say it. It's not a virtue to be self-destructive, it's just kind of s…

WFH is worse. Juniors don’t get the mentoring they need. Collaboration is a fraction of in person. People become siloed. Knowledge is not shared. Knowing when roadblocks occur becomes more difficult. Productivity drops. Sounds like you’ve worked at terrible companies with terrible people. Instead of finding a good company. Then again I haven’t worked at a company with more than 30 employees and so I get paid well and…

Right. Again, even if this is your opinion, you should be pro WFH in general because it makes your life better as someone who works in an office.

But you're not, because you're attempting to appeal to what you think people more successful than you (business owners) want. As opposed to what objectively would be best for you. That's pathetic and self-destructive.

If it makes you feel better, most Americans are self-destructive and don't know how to stop. But if you don't advocate for yourself, you should be aware that certainly nobody else is.

I've worked at good companies, and bad companies. The reality is neither care about my well-being because only I, and my family, care about my well-being. You have to understand if you drop dead right now the world will continue without you. The company will not cease operations for even an hour.

Therefore, you must constantly make an effort to live the best life you can, while you can. Purposefully harming yourself with the intention of creating a better perception doesn't help you, especially when that perception is worthless.

Re: AWS CEO tells workers to quit if they don't want to come back to the office

#140

Post by consteval »

kcplate wrote: post #136
consteval wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You just won’t get the sympathy You absolutely will, you guys are just incredibly short-sighted. I know because I worked food service for a decade. I've worked hard jobs where I'm on my feet 9+ hours a day. People in those positions are shockingly class-conscious. In my experience, much more so than software engineers. Software engineers have a tendency to fall into Delusions of Grandeur, IMO. They might convince t…

> I've worked hard jobs where I'm on my feet 9+ hours a day. So have I and in an industrial laundry no less—picture a big steaming hot and humid warehouse loading dirty shop rags and food service mats into giant washing vats. I can assure you that no point in time was I ever worried about the working conditions of the accounting clerks in the air conditioned offices in their comfortable chairs on their ass all day. F…

Right, and this is incredibly sad and pathetic. Sorry to say. You're bending over and appealing to the wants of the people who exploit you.

Has it never occurred to you that it's beneficial to those who run industrial laundry to make you feel as though you cannot demand better? Because that's what you're saying here - "some people have it worse, therefore I should be grateful and never demand better"

You understand such a mindset is one inherently designed to make you as unsuccessful as possible? This is self-destructive. This is very common anti-union propaganda, for example.

What you're missing is that while you were working in industrial laundry you actually were very privileged. Many, many people worked jobs so much worse than yours you can't even conceptualize it. What, then, do you think they're thinking of you? Perhaps... the exact same thoughts you have? So why not then cut the pay of those in industrial laundry? Why not then whip them into shape? Better yet, let us chain them to the floors, for then maybe they'll understand our graciousness.

There is always a bigger fish. If you believe you're the biggest fish, then not only are you pathetic, you're also stupid.

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