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AI engineers claim new algorithm reduces AI power consumption by 95%

tomshardware.com

131–140 of 174 posts

Re: AI engineers claim new algorithm reduces AI power consumption by 95%

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. But it does potentially mean that either current or future-tweaked GPUs could run a lot more efficiently -- meaning much faster or with much less energy consumption. You still need the GPU parallelism though.

I had a feeling it had to be something like massive waste due to a misguided feature of the algorithms that shouldn't have been there in the first place. Once the "math is done" quite likely it would have paid off better than most investments for the top people to have spent a few short years working with grossly underpowered hardware until they could come up with amazing results there before scaling up. Rather than…

That's just not how progress works.

Its iteritive, there are plenty of cul-de-sacs and failures. You can't really optimise until you have something that works and its a messy process that is inefficient.

You're looking at this with hindsight.

Re: AI engineers claim new algorithm reduces AI power consumption by 95%

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

re: all above/below comments. It's still an extraordinary claim. I'm not claiming it's not possible, nor am I claiming that it's not true, or, at least, honest. But, there will need to be evidence that using real machines, and using real energy an _equivalent performance_ is achievable. A defense that "there are no suitable chips" is a bit disingenuous. If the 95% savings actually has legs some smart chip manufacture…

> If the 95% savings actually has legs some smart chip manufacturer will do the math and make the chips Terrible logic. By a similar logic we wouldn't be using python for machine learning at all, for example (or x86 for compute). Yet here we are.

What's wrong with the logic? A caveat in the paper is that the technique will save 95% energy but that the technique will not run efficiently on current chips. I'm saying that if the new technique needs new chips and saves 95% of energy costs with the same performance, someone will make the chips. I say nothing about how and why we do ML as we do today - the 100% energy usage level.

Re: AI engineers claim new algorithm reduces AI power consumption by 95%

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I almost forgot how much it sucks having to jump to google every other minute Even allowing for some hyperbole, your programming experience is extremely different from mine. Looking anything up outside the IDE, let alone via Google, is by far the exception for me rather than the rule. I've long suspected that this kind of difference explains a lot of the difference in how Copilot is perceived.

Claiming LLMs are a massive boost for coding productivity is becoming a red flag that the claimant has a tenuous grasp on the skills necessary. Yeah if you have to look up everything all the time and you can't tell the AI slop isn't very good, you can put out code quite fast.

I know plenty of fantastic engineers that use LLM tools as code assistants.

I’m not sure when and why reading documentation and man pages became a sign of a lack of skill. Watch a presentation by someone like Brian Kernighan and you’ll see him joke about looking up certain compiler flags for the thousandth time!

Personally I work in C, C#, F#, Java, Kotlin, Swift, R, Ruby, Python, Postgres SQL, MySQL SQL, TypeScript, node, and whatever hundreds of libraries and DSLs are built on top. Yes, I have to look up documentation and with regularity.

Re: AI engineers claim new algorithm reduces AI power consumption by 95%

#134
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't used them enough. Everytime an LLM reduces my search from 1min to 5s, the LLM pays. Just summary features: save me 20min of reading a transcript, turn it into 20s. That's a huge enabler.

If 20 mins of informations can legitimately be condensed into 20 seconds, it sounds like the original wasn't worth reading in the first place. Could have skipped the llm entirely.

Think of the summary of a zoom call. Or of a chapter that you're not sure if you care to read or not.

Not all content is worth consuming, and not all content is dense.

Re: AI engineers claim new algorithm reduces AI power consumption by 95%

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already have been. Even just in programming, even just Copilot has been a life changing productivity booster.

I've been using copilot for several months. If I could figure out a way to measure its impact on my productivity, I'd probably see a single digit percentage boost in "productivity". This is not life-changing for me. And for some tasks, it's actually worse than nothing. As in, I spend time feeding it a task, and it just completely fails to do anything useful.

If you're already a competent developer, I think that's a reasonable expectation of impact on productivity. I think the 'life-changing' part comes in helping someone get to the point of building things with code where before they couldn't (or believed they couldn't). It does a lot better job of turning the enthusiasts and code-curious into amateurs vs. empowering professionals.

Re: AI engineers claim new algorithm reduces AI power consumption by 95%

#137
As someone who has worked in this space (approximate compute) on both GPUs and in silicon in my research, the power consumption claims are completely bogus, as are the accuracy claims:

> In this section, we show that L-Mul is more precise than fp8 e4m3 multiplications

> To be concise, we do not consider the rounding to nearest even mode in both error analysis and complexity estimation for both Mul and L-Mul

These two statements together are non-sensical. Sure, if you analyze accuracy while ignoring the part of the algorithm that gives you accuracy in the baseline you can derive whatever cherry-picked result you want.

The multiplication of two floating point values if you round to nearest even will be the correctly rounded result of multiplying the original values at infinite precision, this is how floating point rounding usually works and what IEEE 754 mandates for fundamental operations if you choose to follow those guidelines (e.g., multiplication here). But not rounding to nearest even will result in a lot more quantization noise, and biased noise at that too.

> applying the L-Mul operation in tensor processing hardware can potentially reduce 95% energy cost by elementwise floating point tensor multiplications and 80% energy cost of dot products

A good chunk of the energy cost is simply moving data between memories (especially external DRAM/HBM/whatever) and along wires, buffering values in SRAMs and flip-flops and the like. Combinational logic cost is usually not a big deal. While having a ton of fixed-function matrix multipliers does raise the cost of combinational logic quite a bit, at most what they have will probably cut the power of an overall accelerator by 10-20% or so.

> In this section, we demonstrate that L-Mul can replace tensor multiplications in the attention mechanism without any loss of performance, whereas using fp8 multiplications for the same purpose degrades inference accuracy

I may have missed it in the paper, but they have provided no details on (re)scaling and/or using higher precision accumulation for intermediate results as one would experience on an H100 for instance. Without this information, I don't trust these evaluation results either.

Re: AI engineers claim new algorithm reduces AI power consumption by 95%

#138
post #107
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 20 mins of informations can legitimately be condensed into 20 seconds, it sounds like the original wasn't worth reading in the first place. Could have skipped the llm entirely.

I upvoted you, because I think you have a valid point. The tone is unnecessarily aggressive though. Effective and information-dense communication is really hard. That doesn't mean we should just accept the useless fluff surrounding the actual information and/or analysis. People could learn a lot from the Ignoble Prize ceremony's 24/7 presentation model. Sadly, it seems we are heading towards a future where you may ne…

Didn't intend for it to be aggressive, just concise. Spare me from the llm please :)

Re: AI engineers claim new algorithm reduces AI power consumption by 95%

#139
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't used them enough. Everytime an LLM reduces my search from 1min to 5s, the LLM pays. Just summary features: save me 20min of reading a transcript, turn it into 20s. That's a huge enabler.

If 20 mins of informations can legitimately be condensed into 20 seconds, it sounds like the original wasn't worth reading in the first place. Could have skipped the llm entirely.

> it sounds like the original wasn't worth reading in the first place

But if that's the only place that contained the information you needed, then you have no choice.

There's a lot of material out there that is badly written, badly organized, badly presented. LLM's can be a godsend for extracting the information you actually need without wasting 20 minutes wading through the muck.

Re: AI engineers claim new algorithm reduces AI power consumption by 95%

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Claiming LLMs are a massive boost for coding productivity is becoming a red flag that the claimant has a tenuous grasp on the skills necessary. Yeah if you have to look up everything all the time and you can't tell the AI slop isn't very good, you can put out code quite fast.

I know plenty of fantastic engineers that use LLM tools as code assistants. I’m not sure when and why reading documentation and man pages became a sign of a lack of skill. Watch a presentation by someone like Brian Kernighan and you’ll see him joke about looking up certain compiler flags for the thousandth time! Personally I work in C, C#, F#, Java, Kotlin, Swift, R, Ruby, Python, Postgres SQL, MySQL SQL, TypeScript,…

Same opinion here. I work with way too many things to keep everything in my head. I'd rather use my head for design than to remember every function and parameter of say STL
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