Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the context of this thread (“non-GM level computer chess”, which I read as also excluding International, FIDE Master, and Candidate Master ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_(chess) )), I think it’s more important to not have a good learning algorithm. Even 10 thousand of such games may already have way more tactics than a player at the targeted level can detect and apply. If so, a learning algorithm that…
Exactly. Level x (whatever scalar thing the user meant by that) doesn't quite work out for the reason you outlined. X Level Players have different tactics and someone that can use all of them will likely be better than most if not all those those players. I got downvoted for saying that. Maybe I didn't phrase it as well as you did
Grandmaster-level chess without search
131–140 of 171 posts
Re: Grandmaster-level chess without search
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
As far as anyone knows, 3.5-turbo-instruct is the best chess playing (certainly it was at the time of the paper) LLM. About 1800 Elo and < 0.1% Illegal move rate. It's unclear why it was so much better than 4 (lack of RLHF?, Data?) and I don't know if anyone has bothered to test 4o similarly but it was pretty big news online at the time.
OA definitely purposefully trained its chess strength
Re: Grandmaster-level chess without search
#133https://lczero.org/blog/2024/02/how-well-do-lc0-networks-com... The best neural network chess engine's authors wrote about this deepminds publication.
LC0 hasn't been the best neural network chess engine since Stockfish added NNUE in 2020.
> Generally considered to be the strongest GPU engine, it continues to provide open data which is essential for training our NNUE networks. They released version 0.31.1 of their engine a few weeks ago, check it out!
The main difference is that Stockfish is targeting to run on the CPU while Leela targets the GPU. That stockfish is able to be competitive with Leela is of course impressive.
https://lichess.org/@/StockfishNews/blog/stockfish-17-is-her...
Re: Grandmaster-level chess without search
#134It's somewhat telling that they chose Stockfish as the oracle and not AlphaZero.
Stockfish is stronger than AlphaZero or any other chess engine from quite some time. Another interesting tidbit, both engines share (or at least, shared) the same lead developer.
Re: Grandmaster-level chess without search
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Sure, you end up beating them about half the time if you cut the search down enough but it generally feels like they were still outplaying you for much of the game and you won because they made one or two blunders." That is what winning in chess is. Minimising blunders.
“The winner of a game is the one who makes the second-to-last blunder.” (Also this has come up in computer chess; it's more important to improve the quality of your worst moves than your average moves)
Re: Grandmaster-level chess without search
#136> Board states s are encoded as FEN strings which we convert to fixed-length strings of 77 characters where the ASCII-code of each character is one token. A FEN string is a description of all pieces on the board, whose turn it is, the castling availability for both players, a potential en passant target, a half-move clock and a full-move counter. We essentially take any variable-length field in the FEN string, and convert it into a fixed-length sub-string by padding with ‘.’ if needed. We never flip the board; the FEN string always starts at rank 1, even when it is the black’s turn. We store the actions in UCI notation (e.g., ‘e2e4’ for the well-known white opening move). To tokenize them we determine all possible legal actions across games, which is 1968, sort them alphanumerically (case-sensitive), and take the action’s index as the token, meaning actions are always described by a single token (all details in Section A.1).
I am starting to notice a pattern in these papers - Writing hyper-specific tokenizers for the target problem.
How would this model perform if we made a small change to the rules of chess and continued using the same tokenizer? If we find we need to rewrite the tokenizer for every problem variant, then I argue this is just ordinary programming in a very expensive disguise.
Re: Grandmaster-level chess without search
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a knowledge distillation. You can then use this smaller, more efficient models instead of the larger one.
Or maybe it is just memorizing a very large number of games.
> This effect cannot be explained by memorization since < 1.41% of the initial puzzle board states appear in our training set.
Re: Grandmaster-level chess without search
#138https://arxiv.org/abs/2402.04494 > Board states s are encoded as FEN strings which we convert to fixed-length strings of 77 characters where the ASCII-code of each character is one token. A FEN string is a description of all pieces on the board, whose turn it is, the castling availability for both players, a potential en passant target, a half-move clock and a full-move counter. We essentially take any variable-lengt…
How is this the top comment?
> I am starting to notice a pattern in these papers - Writing hyper-specific tokenizers for the target problem.
This is merely expressing what they consider as part of a game state, which is entirely needed for what they set out to do.
> I argue this is just ordinary programming
"Ordinary programming" (what does that mean?) for such a task implies extraordinary chess intuition, capable of conjuring rules and heuristics for the task of comparing two game states and saying which one is "better" (what does better mean?).
> How would this model perform if we made a small change to the rules of chess and continued using the same tokenizer?
If by "small change" you are implying i.e. removing the ability to castle, then sure, the tokenizer would need to be rewritten. At the same time, the entire training dataset would need to be changed, such that the games are valid under your new ruleset. How is this controversial or unexpected?
It feels like you are expecting that state of the art technology allows us to input an arbitrary ruleset and the mighty computer immediately plays an arbitrary game optimally. Unfortunately, this is not the case, but that does not take anything away from this paper.
Re: Grandmaster-level chess without search
#139So increasing the number of parameters to the model would allow it to encode more of the search tree and give better performance, which doesn't seem all that interesting.
Re: Grandmaster-level chess without search
#140https://arxiv.org/abs/2402.04494 > Board states s are encoded as FEN strings which we convert to fixed-length strings of 77 characters where the ASCII-code of each character is one token. A FEN string is a description of all pieces on the board, whose turn it is, the castling availability for both players, a potential en passant target, a half-move clock and a full-move counter. We essentially take any variable-lengt…
Since there is no training data for that game, I don't know you get this kind of AI to do anything?