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Web Browser Engineering (2021)

browser.engineering

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Re: Web Browser Engineering (2021)

#131

Post by psd1 »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #127
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, almost every GUI toolkit's scheme for layout has issues, and none of them are perfect. The ones that use absolute pixel positioning fail when using different resolution displays. The ones that use box packing fail when you need to deal with different sized displays. The ones that use constraint programming fail when you need to layout hundreds or thousands of widgets. CSS-style layout has its own pros and c…

possibly, but videogames have been doing layout for ages without CSS and they can vary a lot from game to game while most desktop applications have basically the same 2-3 layouts: input and edit some text, fill in some form, display some data in a table, a tree or a chart

Games lay out one game.

Document readers lay out every possible document.

Re: Web Browser Engineering (2021)

#132

Post by peoplefromibiza »

psd1 wrote: post #131
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

possibly, but videogames have been doing layout for ages without CSS and they can vary a lot from game to game while most desktop applications have basically the same 2-3 layouts: input and edit some text, fill in some form, display some data in a table, a tree or a chart

Games lay out one game. Document readers lay out every possible document.

> Document readers lay out every possible document.

you mean like vector graphic software, DTPs, word processors etc etc?

Flash did resolution independent graphics and layouts on the web back in the late '90s, we killed it - not without reasons - but we still haven't created a decent alternative to it

Re: Web Browser Engineering (2021)

#133

Post by vbezhenar »

maxwell wrote: post #74
vbezhenar wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This Babylonian tower will crumble one day. Layout does not have to be so complex. There are dozens of GUI frameworks with simpler layout system. Those are enough for applications everyone uses.

Which do you recommend?

I've used Java Swing, Cocoa, Qt, Android. They are pretty good and were enough to build any kind of complex UI that I needed. I'm not sure what's the best one in the world, but generally I've found most GUI layout managers pretty good.

Even basic tools like those which were found in old Delphi, with anchoring components to the parent side, were sufficient for many UI-s, although some tasks like internalisation could case some pain.

In the end my opinion is that there should be a balance between usability and ease of implementation. Especially for technologies which are supposed to have many implementations.

Re: Web Browser Engineering (2021)

#134

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #127
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, almost every GUI toolkit's scheme for layout has issues, and none of them are perfect. The ones that use absolute pixel positioning fail when using different resolution displays. The ones that use box packing fail when you need to deal with different sized displays. The ones that use constraint programming fail when you need to layout hundreds or thousands of widgets. CSS-style layout has its own pros and c…

possibly, but videogames have been doing layout for ages without CSS and they can vary a lot from game to game while most desktop applications have basically the same 2-3 layouts: input and edit some text, fill in some form, display some data in a table, a tree or a chart

DAWs (digital audio workstations)

Video editors.

Image editors.

Web browsers.

Circuit, interior and architectural design.

None of these are anything like your "most desktop applications".

Re: Web Browser Engineering (2021)

#135

Post by fouric »

pavpanchekha wrote: post #91
fouric wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Layout is so difficult that it made me quit using Common Lisp and ncurses to build my passion project and become the very thing I swore to destroy (a React developer). I can't be the only one who wants a simpler layout language than CSS that's designed with two decades of hindsight to provide the maximum simplicity-expressiveness product. Are there any serious projects to engineer something like this, or has everyone…

Author here, and I also teach web dev, including CSS, at the University of Utah (including this semester). Newer parts of CSS, like flex-box layout are both simple and powerful. Just use those! I think it's important to start thinking about learning all of the Web Platform like you'd think about learning all of the Windows APIs or all of the Linux system calls or all of your favorite programming language's features.…

Thanks for the response!

Are there any resources on learning to design simpler layout systems (like flexbox + any other important parts) without having to adjust the design to compensate for older systems (e.g. if you were to try to implement CSS).

Re: Web Browser Engineering (2021)

#136

Post by adhamsalama »

abixb wrote: post #93
adhamsalama wrote: post #57

Would be nice to have the option to download it as an epub to read it on my e-reader.

My thoughts precisely. I wish there was a service that could convert book-length webpages into neatly formatted ePUB document. I did find a 'converter', [0] but the service has tons of room for improvement. [0] https://www.freeconvert.com/webpage-to-epub

The website has a single HTML page version, I downloaded it using SingleFile extension on Firefox and sent it to my Kindle using Caliber after converting it to AZW3. The result is great!

Re: Web Browser Engineering (2021)

#137

Post by erikpukinskis »

skydhash wrote: post #88
DanielHB wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For React Native the facebook engineers just gave up and were like "all you get is flexbox layout" and people were quite okay with that (although some people grumble about lack of display grid) https://github.com/facebook/yoga

It works great for small devices, but I prefer ios constraint layout (and I think android got it too). No need for spacers.

When do you need spacers in flexbox?

Re: Web Browser Engineering (2021)

#138

Post by peoplefromibiza »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #134
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

possibly, but videogames have been doing layout for ages without CSS and they can vary a lot from game to game while most desktop applications have basically the same 2-3 layouts: input and edit some text, fill in some form, display some data in a table, a tree or a chart

DAWs (digital audio workstations) Video editors. Image editors. Web browsers. Circuit, interior and architectural design. None of these are anything like your "most desktop applications".

Just to be clear: when you name niche desktop applications you are literally saying that they are not "most of them"

BTW all of those applications you mentioned use many of the same techniques video games use (for the same reason: custom layouts), existed long before the web and are doing just fine without CSS

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