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AAA Gaming on Asahi Linux

rosenzweig.io

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Re: AAA Gaming on Asahi Linux

#131

Post by dcchambers »

wtallis wrote: post #122
dcchambers wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding about the game porting toolkit is that it requires developers to specifically modify their game in order to make their game compatible. The magic of Proton from a consumer point of view is that it just works for basically every game, sans those with Kernel-level anticheat stuff. This means thousands of old games that haven't been updated in years will work.any games that don't have active developers.…

The stated intended purpose of the game porting toolkit is to enable developers to modify their games. But the software actually being shipped includes what is literally a Wine GPU backend, which is usable by (and already used and bundled by) consumer-facing Wine applications like Crossover. If you go to Codeweavers, download any Crossover for Mac from the past year (Sep. 27, 2023 according to their release notes), y…

Huh, TIL, thanks!

Re: AAA Gaming on Asahi Linux

#132

Post by dcchambers »

whimsicalism wrote: post #110
dcchambers wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding about the game porting toolkit is that it requires developers to specifically modify their game in order to make their game compatible. The magic of Proton from a consumer point of view is that it just works for basically every game, sans those with Kernel-level anticheat stuff. This means thousands of old games that haven't been updated in years will work.any games that don't have active developers.…

crossover experience does not require manual modification by developer

TIL about Crossover. Thanks!

Re: AAA Gaming on Asahi Linux

#133

Post by ThatPlayer »

Thaxll wrote: post #86
58028641 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

box86 does ARM32 which isn’t supported by Apple Silicon

box64 if you prefer. https://box86.org/2022/03/box86-box64-vs-qemu-vs-fex-vs-rose...

Box64 only does 64-bit binary translations. So for example Steam cannot run on box64 alone because it's a hybrid with both 32-bit and 64-bit binaries: https://github.com/ptitSeb/box64/?tab=readme-ov-file#notes-a...

Wine has beta support for 32-bit Windows applications on 64-bit-only wine, but it's not default.

They also address it: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-asahi-remix/x86-...

Re: AAA Gaming on Asahi Linux

#134

Post by aurareturn »

bmicraft wrote: post #76
dcchambers wrote: post #22

From a performance and technical perspective this is incredible. Well done! It will never happen, but my dream is for the Asahi devs, Valve, and Apple to all get together to build out a cross-platform Proton to emulate and play games built for Windows on both x86 and ARM hardware running Linux. A Steam Deck with the performance and power efficiency of an M-series ARM chip and the entire library of games that run on P…

An ARM CPU only emulating x86 isn't going to be more efficient than straight x86. ARM is barely more efficient as it is at those performance levels. The real reason Apple is ahead is because they're paying for more expensive more advanced nodes for their CPUs. I you compare CPUs on similar node sizes, you'll see that AMD and Intel are basically caught up architecturally in perf/W metrics.

This is definitely not true. M3 is 2x - 3x more efficient than Lunar Lake on the same N3B node.

Re: AAA Gaming on Asahi Linux

#135

Post by thfuran »

dontdoxxme wrote: post #62
bee_rider wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If every layer of abstraction and emulation is set up to allow it to pass through. It still seems really impressive to me, like lining up a bunch of targets and shooting an arrow through to get multiple bullseyes or something, haha.

Hardly, the benefit of binary is if everything lines up once, it always will. It’s not an analog world with pesky things like wind resistance.

Maybe if you happen to own the control stack from hardware, OS, drivers, to client software and are willing to never change any of it once you get things lined up.

Re: AAA Gaming on Asahi Linux

#136

Post by Wowfunhappy »

kelnos wrote: post #94
miohtama wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why Apple does not just implement it? They have more resources than anyone in the world. Patents?

Because they don't care. They've decided that Metal is The One True Way to write 3D-accelerated apps on macOS, so they only implement the things in hardware that Metal requires.

Maybe, but we got here because I asked "is it possible that Apple doesn't want to support Vulkan (in software) because they don't want to support the features it needs (in hardware)."

If the reason they don't support it in hardware is because they don't want to support it in software, then the logic gets a bit circular.

I'm interested in which came first, or if it's a little of both.

Re: AAA Gaming on Asahi Linux

#137

Post by wtallis »

kelnos wrote: post #94
miohtama wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why Apple does not just implement it? They have more resources than anyone in the world. Patents?

Because they don't care. They've decided that Metal is The One True Way to write 3D-accelerated apps on macOS, so they only implement the things in hardware that Metal requires.

There are definitely some features omitted from Apple's GPU, but fairly early in the reverse engineering process, Alyssa Rosenzweig provided several examples of hardware features present in Apple's GPU that are not exposed by Metal: https://rosenzweig.io/blog/asahi-gpu-part-4.html

Re: AAA Gaming on Asahi Linux

#138

Post by fl0id »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #116
fl0id wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Haven’t tried those games, but on apple silicon whisky app emulates with gameporting toolkit + wine/proton. For intel silicon I think it was also possible but not sure.

Oh, wow, I did not realize how many games worked with this: https://docs.getwhisky.app/game-support/index.html I had assumed the lack of Vulkan on macOS was a major issue. Apparently not!

Yeah,can’t tell you how it works exactly but it’s quite good

Re: AAA Gaming on Asahi Linux

#140

Post by fl0id »

Philpax wrote: post #130
fl0id wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah good luck with that in systems programming or anything complex. You’re not gonna get far.

I guarantee you'll get much further than you would have previously done in the same amount of time, just by virtue of it being able to point you in the right direction. You don't need perfection when learning, you need a wayfinder, and it can do that just fine.

It won’t point you in the right direction though. At least in my experience. It will only give very superficial answers. And fe just trying to write rust - it will try to explain the error message but most of the time says nothing new and to find out how to fix it you will have to read docs and understand things the old way anyway. At least in my experience
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