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US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

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Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#131
post #129

What an incompetent government where the goal is to pad some DoJ lawyer's resume instead of benefiting consumers or the economy

The US government has been working solely for their donors for the last 40+ years. Any benefit the voters get from lawmaking is coincidental.

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#132

There's side effect benefit of big kahuna companies mainly on the significant breakthrough and game changing research output because these excellent researchers are paid handsome money compared to conventional universities or research institutions. We saw this with AT&T Bell research labs with their inventions of transistor and Unix, among others. The same thing happened with Google research with (arguably) deep lear…

Lina Khan's response to this argument. [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/live/L_QaZk5iJOA?si=ZkxBe1CHgagmcBcW...

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#133
post #113

HN is a special place but among the average folk, I get why 90% of people use google. I'm no google fan, but it still baffles me how bad the alternatives still are. Especially with so many companies scraping the whole web for AI data, and so many GPUs chugging on that data. I suppose they are all focused on replacing the concept of search results with LLM prose. Ironically bing is down at the moment https://downdetec…

I use DDG most of the time. Sometimes I try Google, and then I'm disgusted by all the non-result garbage they put at the top nowadays. Once in a while they do have something valuable that DDG misses.

So yeah, I find DDG perfectly adequate.

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no point in chasing a high GDP when it results in a materially worse world. The point of a society isn't to make the numbers go up. If a monopoly is super efficient at generating some nebulous concept of value by creating and operating the world's largest surveillance system and actively using it to sell influence over people's attention and habits then the only sensible thing to do is to dismantle it.

> results in a materially worse world. Please explain how Google has created a materially worse world

Uh, I did. That's what the whole "surveillance system" part of the post was. Also I think advertisements in general are harmful.

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no point in chasing a high GDP when it results in a materially worse world. The point of a society isn't to make the numbers go up. If a monopoly is super efficient at generating some nebulous concept of value by creating and operating the world's largest surveillance system and actively using it to sell influence over people's attention and habits then the only sensible thing to do is to dismantle it.

> results in a materially worse world. Please explain how Google has created a materially worse world

It's a paperclip maximizer. Paperclip maximizers are bad.

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#136
Something I really don't get is the part about Google's monopoly in search text ads. FTA:

> Finally, the filing said Google’s dominance over search text ads needed to be addressed by lowering barriers to would-be rivals or licensing its ad feed to others, independently from search results.

What Google has is a monopoly on search (which is bad), but I don't think having a monopoly for advertising on your own property is a bad thing. If anything, from a privacy perspective, I'd rather that only one party (the publisher, in this case Google) gets to see my searches, rather than the publisher and an ecosystem of low-scrupules ad platforms.

For sure I might be biased as I used to work on Google Ads, but I also know quite a bit about how the sausage is made and how the industry is. That being said, I really don't see how "licensing the ad feed" would do any good for end users.

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#137
post #17

There's side effect benefit of big kahuna companies mainly on the significant breakthrough and game changing research output because these excellent researchers are paid handsome money compared to conventional universities or research institutions. We saw this with AT&T Bell research labs with their inventions of transistor and Unix, among others. The same thing happened with Google research with (arguably) deep lear…

The split of ATT killed Unix2, so we spent 30 years re-implementing Linux+k8s. These things that existed in Unix2 & Plan9 were re-implemented by Plan9 employees in Google Labs.

The AT&T split had nothing to do with monopoly regulation (as opposed to the Bell breakup in 1982), other than the fact that Wall Street wasn't rewarding regulated operating companies with dot-com valuations. AT&T wanted to sell hardware to other telcos and dot-coms, so spun off Lucent, which had no idea what it wanted to do with P9/Inferno (which was a fantastic piece of kit!) other than embed it into a couple of network products. Lucent bet heavily on unstable CLECs like Worldcom, generated a couple of headline-creating network crashes, and then failed to capitalize on their pole position in optical long-haul (to be fair, they also bet heavily on a very unstable Global Crossing for that). There's a lot of mismanagement and failures that can be ascribed to Lucent leadership without government or regulatory intervention being involved.

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#138
post #39

Hilariously shortsighted. Big Tech companies have been a GDP-doubling runaway success for the US economy. It would be like if we here in Denmark started breaking up Novo Nordisk. Our economists would probably do a public lynching of any government official who suggested doing that. However as a European I can't help but welcoming the US shooting themselves in the foot like this. Something tells me we will see more of…

What you say would have been true 10+ years ago, but not anymore. Big tech is really into rent seeking and competition stifling now, we'd see more innovation by opening up the space so new players can get a foothold.

Re: US weighs Google break-up in landmark antitrust case

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no point in chasing a high GDP when it results in a materially worse world. The point of a society isn't to make the numbers go up. If a monopoly is super efficient at generating some nebulous concept of value by creating and operating the world's largest surveillance system and actively using it to sell influence over people's attention and habits then the only sensible thing to do is to dismantle it.

> results in a materially worse world. Please explain how Google has created a materially worse world

What part of being a massive ad company whose raison d'etre is to collect as much personal information about you as possible (with limited or no consent) to enable other people to try to convince you to buy stuff even remotely a net positive for the world?
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