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HBO documentary suggests Bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto is Peter Todd

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Re: HBO documentary suggests Bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto is Peter Todd

#131

Post by nullc »

paulpauper wrote: post #126
vizzah wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gov/CIA most definitely knows who Satoshi is. Even if he always used TOR/anonymous IPs, when accessing his @gmx.com account, with the number of sign-in's he had, it must be an absolute certainty, that he want through rogue exit nodes or some other de-anonymization methods we are not aware of, but deployed by gov. agencies.

An IP was leaked in 2009 though tied to Satoshi in Los Angles

I think that "IP leak" is extremely dubious and is predicated on both misunderstandings of how freenode worked and an incorrect assumption that no one else was running Bitcoin early on.

Re: HBO documentary suggests Bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto is Peter Todd

#132

Post by nullc »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #91
petertodd wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Peter makes it just after joining the form, so he is unlikely to have detailed knowledge of bitcoin. The fact that the inputs, outputs, and fee of a transaction must add up isn't exactly "detailed knowledge" :) I don't think it took me all that long to figure that out when I first tried understanding how Bitcoin worked. And frankly, the core of Bitcoin really isn't all that complex! You can have a very good underst…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29728339 Can you prove what you were doing on 2009-01-10? I find it interesting you have a curious prior interest in that IP leak and your spin on it. If you are Satoshi then you should think carefully if you have any other OPSEC slip ups and then if you think there might be more … It’s better to confess and handle the issue of your coins. Your safety should be priority number one…

> Can you prove what you were doing on 2009-01-10?

Can you? it was more than 15 years ago.

Re: HBO documentary suggests Bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto is Peter Todd

#133

Post by nullc »

mike_hearn wrote: post #129
whimsicalism wrote: post #36

imo it's pretty obvious that he was Hal Finney, potentially with collaborators, and no amount of scripted emails, etc. disproves it for me

Reasons why it probably wasn't Hal Finney. 1. Satoshi emailed me at the same time Hal was taking part in a marathon. Yes, technically emails can be delayed, but ... why? There was no urgency in those discussions. 2. Hal preferred to write C and was still writing C up until the moment he sadly passed away. Satoshi wrote in modern(ish) C++. Note that the same problem applies for Len Sassaman and basically everyone who…

Hi Mike. Please provide the complete enclosing headers of the email in question, along with their DKIM signature. The header trace will help dispel any allegations that the messages were delayed for technical reasons or were otherwise corrupted.

Re: HBO documentary suggests Bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto is Peter Todd

#134

Post by nullc »

px43 wrote: post #125
nullc wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The forum is/was public, so there is no reason to create an account until you're planning to post something or send a private message. Why is this my first post on bitcoin-dev: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2011... ? I'm sure you've heard the adage, "It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it." But online when you're silent you'…

Oh hey Greg :-D Did you watch the movie yet? Was fun. I'm definitely still team Dave. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Kleiman Last time I talked to Peter was in 2019 and he was making fun of me for spending Bitcoins continuously since 2011, and said Bitcoins are supposed to be hoarded like gold or something, not used as money. Definitely not the attitude of someone who supposedly burned the million Satoshi coins (…

The bitcoin IRC logs are public, the segment in the documentary is from the bitcoin-wizards channel (e.g. https://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/). There are a number of public interfaces to them, I didn't catch which one the documentary was using.

It doesn't say anything that support's the documentary's thesis, Petertood is talking about provably destroying coins in order to mint identities and similar. This couldn't apply to the coins alleged by some to belong to Satoshi, as they haven't moved.

Almost all of Bitcoin's history is completely public, but sadly the wealth of information seems to just enable conspiracy theorists to allege that there is more hidden.

> I'm definitely still team Dave.

I'm so tired of dealing with the victims of Wright's nonsense. It's gross. Posts like this are like a IV drug user showing off their radical track marks.

Re: HBO documentary suggests Bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto is Peter Todd

#135

Post by nullc »

kyledrake wrote: post #124
kyledrake wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed there's really nothing positive to be had from coming out as Satoshi at this point regardless of who it is. Criminals and governments will be falling over each other to try to get their take.

One addendum here: If I was personally Satoshi, I would come back and try to convince everyone to switch to proof of stake instead of proof of work and then subsequently disappear again. If you need a non-politicized reason why (something other than climate change), just go with my joke one of solving one of the outcomes of Fermi's Paradox (distant civilizations don't send signals because all energy is used to mine c…

Proof of stake doesn't solve the problem bitcoin set out to solve.

A proof of stake system is essentially just a rehash on the earlier centralized digital cash systems where a quorum of key holders engage in a consensus that determines further updates to the system (including the set of keys allowed to authorize further updates).

We didn't need Satoshi to come up with that, that idea was already known.

Re: HBO documentary suggests Bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto is Peter Todd

#136

Post by nullc »

kyledrake wrote: post #121
joeyagreco wrote: post #118

> Todd reportedly denied he was the bitcoin creator: "Of course I'm not Satoshi," he said.

The genesis block has a message from a relatively obscure British newspaper in it (The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks). Not something I would expect a frontier Canadian in their 20s to be sourcing from. That and various other evidence (coding style, british-english spelling) has suggested to me for a long time that it's an older gentleman from the UK, likely with an academic backgro…

The Times is not an obscure paper, but if you'd like some fodder: the headline Satoshi used is from the print edition rather than the online edition which was different.

That said, Satoshi was clearly extremely diligent in concealing their identity, and so they may well have purposefully decided to use a headline that they wouldn't have had ordinary access too-- when someone is trying to conceal themselves it creates an environment which is hostile to logical reasoning. Any point which could point one direction might instead point the opposite or in a random direction.

Re: HBO documentary suggests Bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto is Peter Todd

#137

Post by alchemist1e9 »

nullc wrote: post #132
alchemist1e9 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29728339 Can you prove what you were doing on 2009-01-10? I find it interesting you have a curious prior interest in that IP leak and your spin on it. If you are Satoshi then you should think carefully if you have any other OPSEC slip ups and then if you think there might be more … It’s better to confess and handle the issue of your coins. Your safety should be priority number one…

> Can you prove what you were doing on 2009-01-10? Can you? it was more than 15 years ago.

Now it is starting to look to me almost like you and Peter Todd are panicking and making huge slip ups.

Let me explain.

I see that you are now also arguing the IP leak is questionable and that others were running Bitcoin or could have been. Now combine this with the absurd idea that “retep” could have just been abandoned and it means nothing, even peter backwards, there are a million Peters whatever.

This is crazy you guys are basically accidentally admitting to technical somewhat knowledgable people like myself that retep is Satoshi because the excuses don’t pass the smell test. We know Peter was an actual wiz kid, it’s clear, Hal was emailing him in 2000, all using the email address that included … wait for it … “retep”, his IRC, his website, his freenode. It’s now obvious that he likely changed to his real name because the “cat was out of the bag” among the insiders. Hal would have immediately known Satoshi was Peter.

OMG guys get your act together fast. You need a plan B, no pun intended, because real investigators will tease it out, the top people doing that, have almost supernatural human intuition.

Regarding IP leak. Come on. Obviously it’s his IP. Was there a conference or vacation he was on maybe?

I’m just a dumb ass Bitcoiner from OG days and I can see though this charade so easily. I’m concerned.

Bitcoin is a gift to humanity from Satoshi (perhaps not retep!) and if the keys aren’t destroyed already and Satoshi is alive and has them then perhaps he should consider publicly burning the 1M coins or at least most of them. The nebulous case of supposedly the keys are destroyed is not a good situation tbh.

To answer your question. Yes I can definitely figure out where I was on January 10th, 2009. I know where I lived and worked then. I know if I took any vacations.

I’m hoping Peter Todd has a good alibi if he isn’t Satoshi. If he is … well time to confess and handle it in a way that doesn’t hurt the amazing invention.

EDIT: I wish I didn’t open this can of worms on HN. But I can’t delete it now …

Re: HBO documentary suggests Bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto is Peter Todd

#138

Post by olalonde »

whimsicalism wrote: post #86
pa7ch wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2206.10257v14 This paper makes a pretty good case that the late Len Sassaman was Satoshi. Its a pretty thorough examination regardless if you think it was Len or not and doesn't come to a definitive conclusion.

I think it is likely the 2014 message was actually Satoshi and there really is no evidence to the contrary. It rules out Len or at least Len as the exclusive creator

Why would he do it for Dorian but not for Craig Wright, who caused immensely more harm to the community?

Plus, Satoshi's email was hacked in 2014 (or earlier), and it was likely hacked multiple times[0].

[0] https://blog.bitmex.com/satoshis-2014-email-hack/

Re: HBO documentary suggests Bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto is Peter Todd

#139

Post by nullc »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #137
nullc wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you prove what you were doing on 2009-01-10? Can you? it was more than 15 years ago.

Now it is starting to look to me almost like you and Peter Todd are panicking and making huge slip ups. Let me explain. I see that you are now also arguing the IP leak is questionable and that others were running Bitcoin or could have been. Now combine this with the absurd idea that “retep” could have just been abandoned and it means nothing, even peter backwards, there are a million Peters whatever. This is crazy yo…

Your tone makes it sound like you're about to break out gematria next. :) You're deep into confirmation bias.

Try considering an alternative hypothesis: This is a new absurd allegation which has only just shown up. Petertodd only learned the documentary would run with this claim hours before it came out as a result of journalists who saw a screener asking him questions. I am not petertodd.

At some point surprising late I realized that the retep account on the forum was petertodd, so it sounded like a fine reason to me that this would be surprising. But it turns out that when you reason backwards from having information after the fact there were already a number of links. Okay so what?

Consider how your logic would work if Todd was maliciously trying to falsely convince people he was a reluctant satoshi-- by e.g. using ineffectual arguments that he wasn't? or failing to to provide "proof".

You would be totally taken by him. Good reasoning doesn't have that vulnerability.

It's not even a speculative attack, this is part of what Wright did to him that enabled him to defraud so many. The kind of reasoning you're using is so vulnerable that it's being accidentally exploited by someone who isn't even trying to do so.

> Regarding IP leak. Come on. Obviously it’s his IP. Was there a conference or vacation he was on maybe?

simply reiterating a position isn't an argument.

> Yes I can definitely figure out where I was on January 10th, 2009. I know where I lived and worked then. I know if I took any vacations.

Where's the proof? That's what you demanded above.

Re: HBO documentary suggests Bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto is Peter Todd

#140

Post by alchemist1e9 »

nullc wrote: post #139
alchemist1e9 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now it is starting to look to me almost like you and Peter Todd are panicking and making huge slip ups. Let me explain. I see that you are now also arguing the IP leak is questionable and that others were running Bitcoin or could have been. Now combine this with the absurd idea that “retep” could have just been abandoned and it means nothing, even peter backwards, there are a million Peters whatever. This is crazy yo…

Your tone makes it sound like you're about to break out gematria next. :) You're deep into confirmation bias. Try considering an alternative hypothesis: This is a new absurd allegation which has only just shown up. Petertodd only learned the documentary would run with this claim hours before it came out as a result of journalists who saw a screener asking him questions. I am not petertodd. At some point surprising la…

> Where's the proof? That's what you demanded above.

Most people have jobs or school and maybe kids in school. It means there are records and also we can often have our emails. It’s actually very likely in my opinion that Todd could easily figure out where he was that specific day and there would be corroborating evidence of that.

However it’s not limited to that. It could come from any of the Satoshi timestamps, being on an airplane (no internet back then) somewhere or in some situation that would make it impossible for him to be Satoshi.

You guys are a bit younger than my generation and so you still think 15 years is a long time. It’s not really.

I noticed you are also now questioning the Finney alibi and asking for DKIM email message. I mean yeah not a bad idea to check but interesting that you and petertodd seem to be actively questioning things, which honestly is also good. I mean these details are important.

For example I see you raise something about freenode and IPs with the IP leak. I’m planning to study what you said tomorrow. I don’t on the surface understand what you mean about that. It seems pretty clear the IP in the debug.log file is Satoshi’s node and IRC connection, likely a configuration mistake for the windows VM networking.

> I am not petertodd

I know that. However you and him I believe have a long history together.

> This is a new absurd allegation which has only just shown up.

Yes that’s exactly what I initially thought. But once people look closer I’m not so sure.

A few questions for you: - didn’t Hal actually know retep for a long time? and invite him to join the bluesky list?

- isn’t retep remarkably skilled for his age in 2009 and earlier? he worked professionally on a C++ large codebase at 17! and was clearly very gifted based on an early resume.

- petertodd/retep appears to be trying to misdirect. for instance claiming to he a poor C++ coder?

A good alibi will clear this up if he has it.

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