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Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

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Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#131
post #5

So, then, Apple is next?

No, apple won on the exact same claims in front of a different judge.

In the Apple case the judge defined the relevant market as "digital mobile gaming transactions" and that Apple is not legally a monopoly there in part because of competition from Google, Nintendo, and Stadia (lol). A suit from another company could result in a different market determination and a different outcome without being inconsistent with that ruling.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it should all be circumventable. My phone, like my computer, should be able to install whatever code I damn well please.

If you want Android, you know where you can find it.

I might switch now that Apple has been forced to embrace RCS - but the blue bubble lockout for younger people is/was unfortunately very real.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#133
post #6

Wait, so the Google Play Store, which you can install alternatives to (F-Droid, Aurora, Amazon,...), and where you can easily install apps through other means (such as downloading an APK through your browser and running it from the file manager) is an illegal monopoly while the Apple App Store isn't? Well, I guess Google's market cap is only 2 trillion compared to Apple's 3 trillion, so I guess that's fair.

Apple's business model is more amenable to current law's obsession with "intellectual property". If the government grants you a monopoly over a market, it's not a crime to exert monopoly power over that market. Apple's argument is "we can sell iOS however we want", and this works because the US has the best copyright laws money can buy. We need to fix them.

Google, in contrast, started with a FOSS operating system and then added proprietary components provided under licensing terms deliberately intended to claw back your right to use the FOSS parts. For example, if you want to ship Google Play on a device, you can't also manufacture tablets for Amazon, because Fire OS is an "incompatible" Android fork. Google provided AOSP as Free Software and then secretly overrode that Freedom with the licensing terms for GMS.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it should all be circumventable. My phone, like my computer, should be able to install whatever code I damn well please.

If you want Android, you know where you can find it.

If you don't want to install apps outside of the App Store, you don't have to.

If other iPhone users want to install their own apps without jumping through absurd hoops, let them instead of telling them what they can and can't do with the hardware they own.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#135
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably not a great idea to point at a monopoly, as a defense of one's own monopoly, and claim "Yeah, but he did it worse." Both Google and Apple's platforms need to be cracked open to competition.

I can see why they'd want to say "our competitor does it worse but we're the only ones being regulated". Sure, they'd rather not be regulated at all... but, if they are, then they want to be regulated no worse than their competitor.

Well because it's their competitor, who now has a huge legally-enforced advantage.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#136
post #106
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. Epic is offering a different pricing model that might or might not be more advantageous to developers That is literally what competition should look like.

From the judges decisions: > Google also can’t: > Offer developers money or perks to launch their apps on the Play Store exclusively or first

Makes sense that privilege was taken away, given that Google is facing legal consequences for abusing their position in the mobile app distribution and payments markets.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#137
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon Prime Video... Netflix... Disney Plus... The choices are great... Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum...

Yes, they are. This competition means an enormous boom in quality content has been produced that would have never existed otherwise because of the competition. Choices are great and have resulted in far better services.

I don't agree. TV/movie programming, and the services they run on, are not fungible. If I have a show that I like that's only on a certain platform, it doesn't matter how good or bad that platform is, I need a subscription.

The problem is tying the content to the platform. All studios should be required to license their content under RAND terms to all other streaming platforms. Then the streaming platforms can actually compete on objective measures like price, reliability, video quality, offline watching, etc.

In this case I don't think we've gotten better services. I still believe that the gold standard for a streaming app has been Netflix (well, at least until a few years ago; it's started going downhill IMO). All the others have significant problems, whether with reliability or quality, or with UX. They've certainly gotten better over time, but I don't think I'd consider any of them pleasant to use.

For the longest time, legally, movie studios could not own movie theaters. We correctly recognized that the studios should not have a monopoly on where and how their content is distributed. Unfortunately I believe that law has expired or been repealed recently. We're going in the wrong direction. We need more laws like that, and we need them to apply to streaming platforms too.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#138
post #108
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a court of public opinion. This isn't a popularity contest; they're not running for public office or something here. In real court (with real lawyers and real judges), precedent often matters (often, it matters quite a lot). Informing the court of [what may be] meaningful precedent is important; without this deliberate informative step, the court might not know about it at all. The court cannot take anything…

Did the Apple Epic decision go all the way up to SCOTUS? If not, any precedent set by a lower court would be limited to its district/circuit.

They were both in the same court (United States District Court for the Northern District of California).

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#139

Soon we'll have the Verizon Appstore and the Spotify Appstore and the Zoom Appstore, the exclusive home for each app and their partners, each with it's own overlapping user tracking libraries and insecure payment methods, and no one can even tell them to do otherwise. Coming soon to iOS, too!

Yep. Then consumers can decide which one is best for them. Then they can compete. Then the best features with the best pricing, no only for customers, but the cut for developers, can be discovered. You pay such a high price for living in the walled garden. I honestly can't imagine why you would _want_ it.

> You pay such a high price for living in the walled garden. I honestly can't imagine why you would _want_ it.

I got an iPhone so that I wouldn't have to deal with the Android ecosystem. I go to the app store, install an app, and get on with my life.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the review part I support. The revenue part is fucking horseshit.

What percentage do you think is fair to allow for a quality code review?

> percentage

Already we're asking the wrong questions. A flat fee that may or may not be fair: $1000.

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