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The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

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Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#131

Post by ezekiel68 »

JohnFen wrote: post #76

"Worse is better" has become like "move fast and break things". They're both sayings that reveal an often-overlooked truth, but they have both been taken far too far and result in worse things for everybody.

I see what you mean. Yet I feel like the first one (at least, as outlined in the article) is more about accepting an inevitability that you probably have little control over, while the second is more often adopted as a cultural process guideline for things you can control. But that's just my impression.

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#132

Post by morning-coffee »

busterarm wrote: post #72
djha-skin wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually take this as evidence that Rust will always remain niche. It's just a very complicated language. Go or Zig is much easier to learn and reason about. In Go you can immediately tell what the fields are in a config yaml file just by looking at struct annotations. Try doing that with Rust's Serde. Super opaque in my opinion.

Exactly! Rust will only protect me from things my customers don't care about and don't understand. By not using Rust and just dealing with it, I'm making more money faster than if I started with Rust. Rust only matters in environments where that calculus comes out the other way.

> Rust will only protect me from things my customers don't care about and don't understand.

Are you suggesting your customers don't care about CVE's, even indirectly when it affects them?

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#133

Post by ezekiel68 »

bee_rider wrote: post #17

I don’t get the name New Jersey approach, is it just the general association of New Jersey and poor quality? When I think of New Jersey and CS, I think of Princeton, which has a pretty good program IIRC. — Anyway, I wouldn’t put simplicity on the same level as the other things. Simplicity isn’t a virtue in and of itself, simplicity is valuable because it helps all of the other things. Simplicity helps a bit with cons…

I made the same error when I first read it years ago. It certainly felt like an academic reference.

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#134

Post by eikenberry »

pjc50 wrote: post #41
NAHWheatCracker wrote: post #11

I'll never understand the obsession with LISP. My guess is it just appeals to a certain type of person, sort of academic in my view. I'm not convinced that LISP was ever the-right-thing. The author didn't express anything about LISP vs C except to assert that C was a 50% solution and LISP was better. I agree though that for practical purposes, practical solutions are just going to be more successful.

Over the years I've developed what I call the "lefthanded scissors" analogy: people assume that everyone's mind is wired the same way and that all good programmers are good in the same way and think in the same way, but what if that's not true? What if different people have a predisposition (like lefthandedness) to prefer different tools? Then a righthanded person picks up the lefthanded scissors and deems them weird…

I've always preferred to use classical "fine" artists as an metaphor for development language preferences. Artists don't just pick up any medium at a whim, most have specific mediums that they excel in and ignore the others. For example Van Gogh produced his most famous works in oil paints. He had worked in other mediums but his talent definitely seemed to shine when working in oils and when he first found oils he took to them quickly and adopted them as his primary medium.

Most people definitely seem to have specific preferences built into their talents. I don't see why programming or programming languages would be any different from any other medium or art form.

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#135

Post by chuckadams »

rwmj wrote: post #127
pjc50 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, there's an entirely different feature-length article to be written/found about how packet switching beat circuit switching and the "Internet approach" beat the telco approach. The great innovation of being able to deploy devices at the edges without needing clearance from the center. I don't think very many people even remember X25. The one survivor from all the X standards seems to be X509?

https://www.wired.com/1996/10/atm-3/ Netheads vs Bellheads

> "How do you scare a Bellhead?" he begins. "First, show them something like RealAudio or IPhone. Then tell them that right now performance is bandwidth-limited, but that additional infrastructure is being deployed."

You'd scare anyone like an amazed rural tribesman if you showed them an iPhone in 1996.

I know, IPhone was a Cisco thing, but my mind went there for a beat ;)

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#136

Post by KerrAvon »

dkarl wrote: post #85
hammock wrote: post #43

There was an article posted on here[1] a while back that I only just found again, introducing the term "expedience." The idea was that we think we live in a world where people have to have "the best" sweater, be on "the best" social network, drive "the best" car, etc. But when you look at what really WINS, it's not the best, it's the most "expedient" - i.e. sufficiently good, with built-in social proof, inoculated of…

"Expedient" is a common (or at least not rare) English word that means something like "practical and effective even if not directly attending to higher or deeper considerations." For example, if two students in a class are having frequent confrontations that bring learning in the class to a halt, and attempts by teachers and counselors to address their conflict directly haven't been effective, the expedient solution…

I think this is misleading -- geoengineering + social change will be necessary. You're not going to Scotty your way out of climate change.

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#137

Post by KerrAvon »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #57
hammock wrote: post #43

There was an article posted on here[1] a while back that I only just found again, introducing the term "expedience." The idea was that we think we live in a world where people have to have "the best" sweater, be on "the best" social network, drive "the best" car, etc. But when you look at what really WINS, it's not the best, it's the most "expedient" - i.e. sufficiently good, with built-in social proof, inoculated of…

> Is a Tesla (perhaps outdated example since X) "the best" car - no, but it is the most expedient. The most expedient car? Or BEV in the US?

Neither. Going by the parent poster's gauge, the most "expedient" is probably Lucid; better engineering, better range, and better service.

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#138

Post by KerrAvon »

KerrAvon wrote: post #137
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is a Tesla (perhaps outdated example since X) "the best" car - no, but it is the most expedient. The most expedient car? Or BEV in the US?

Neither. Going by the parent poster's gauge, the most "expedient" is probably Lucid; better engineering, better range, and better service.

but it's really not what "expedient" means

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#139

Post by ezekiel68 »

gpderetta wrote: post #9
orwin wrote: post #6

This... Honestly the first lines seemed I thought this was an arrogant take, but he made _really_ good point and now I tend to agree with him. Still I am a bit bothered, does a counterargument exist?

Empirically, it seems Worse is Better appear to have been correct many many times.

Yes and it almost serves as more of a coping mechanism (a thought framework that helps us accept what may not seem to be 'the better') than an airtight philosophical position.

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#140

Post by _yb2s »

hammock wrote: post #64
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is a Tesla (perhaps outdated example since X) "the best" car - no, but it is the most expedient. The most expedient car? Or BEV in the US?

Fair point... it was a coastal California-centric point but there is plenty of nuance or adjustment to be made. At some point in the 90's we'd probably have said "Silver E class Mercedes" is the most expedient luxury sedan, if you wanted a different example.

The early to mid 90s E class aka W124 definitely went down in history as one of the best quality and best designed cars ever made. Other luxury cars may be faster, more fun, or have more features… but the W124 probably is “the best” if you’re looking just at build quality and well thought out design details.

As a car nerd though, I never felt the need to buy one because they just seem fairly boring- other than a few rare models most were 4 door sedans with automatics, fairly small engines, and soft non sporty suspension.

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