Response to WP Engine’s Lawsuit • Hacker News Board

Re: Response to WP Engine’s Lawsuit

#131

Post by mthoms » Sun, Oct 06, 2024, 2:27 AM UTC

skmurphy wrote: post #126

mthoms wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree except for "the court of public opinion" part. It seems abundantly clear to me that Matt has damaged his name beyond repair. As I see it, the only way for WordPress to survive is if Matt steps down from the board, and the foundation & dot org mess is reorganized in a manner that makes it accountable to the community. Even then, a lot of damage has been done to the reputation of WordPress. I won't be…

Reasonable people may differ. We have very different perspectives on the likely evolution of the current situation. I believe Matt will remain CEO and a year from now, the voluntary departure buyouts from WordPress will be viewed in the same way that 37 Signals weathered the buyout departures of some of their staff. See contemporaneous report at https://techcrunch.com/2021/04/30/basecamp-employees-quit-ce... Firms th…

>Firms that dominate markets enjoy tremendous inertia in customer choice and can take a long time to die

That's a really good point. But I think (& hope) it's a little different in the open source world, because people have stronger moral opinions about where they hang their hat. We'll see.

Re: Response to WP Engine’s Lawsuit

#132

Post by yawnxyz » Sun, Oct 06, 2024, 6:41 AM UTC

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #92

yawnxyz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automattic apparently has 1800 employees (LOL). Surprised they don't have a board, HR, comms, and other teams? Also I realized "Matt" is front and center in Automattic so that says a lot

You "realized"? He built WordPress from the first day. That's why he runs both its non-profit and Automattic, which is named after him. It sounds like you haven't been aware at all about WordPress and suddenly looked up some numbers and imposed traditional company expectations on an open source project with a commercial arm.

I know absolutely nothing about Wordpress or Matt! I'm not much of an internet historian

Re: Response to WP Engine’s Lawsuit

#133

Post by AlchemistCamp » Sun, Oct 06, 2024, 12:39 PM UTC

yawnxyz wrote: post #132

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You "realized"? He built WordPress from the first day. That's why he runs both its non-profit and Automattic, which is named after him. It sounds like you haven't been aware at all about WordPress and suddenly looked up some numbers and imposed traditional company expectations on an open source project with a commercial arm.

I know absolutely nothing about Wordpress or Matt! I'm not much of an internet historian

Fair enough! Me, neither. I just had a WordPress blog for several years and the back story came up in various announcements in the dashboard news feed.

Re: Response to WP Engine’s Lawsuit

#134

Post by cplat » Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 6:40 AM UTC

skmurphy wrote: post #98

snowwrestler wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no world where forcing significant customers off WP Engine works out well for Automattic. Those customers are not going to migrate their sites to the company that just gave them an operational and security headache (Automattic). And most big customers do not give a shit about Wordpress per se. They just use it because it’s a free and convenient accelerant for the sites they want to build. If it starts becomin…

If 5-10% leave and WP Engine decides it's better to pay a royalty rather than fork that probably works out well enough. For context see https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/02/automattic_wp_engine_... "In an email, Bruce Perens, one of the founders of the open source movement who drafted the original Open Source Definition, told The Register, "Let's be clear about WP Engine: It's built on WordPress. There would be no…

By that logic, the 30% Apple tax must be "extremely fair" because all iOS apps are built on both the software and hardware built by Apple, which are arguably far more complex than a piece of PHP software. (/sarcasm)

Being "built" on something does not in itself imply value. What has to be taken into account is also "value that is added." If the underlying platform had high intrinsic value in itself, then no value would have had to be built on it to profit from it, which would mean WP Engine would not be the only entity profiting from it.

And to add to the reductio ad absurdum, are PHP engineers required to "donate part of their salaries" to the project just because "they're profiting off of that language?" (/sarcasm)

Re: Response to WP Engine’s Lawsuit

#135

Post by skmurphy » Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 10:05 AM UTC

cplat wrote: post #134

skmurphy wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 5-10% leave and WP Engine decides it's better to pay a royalty rather than fork that probably works out well enough. For context see https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/02/automattic_wp_engine_... "In an email, Bruce Perens, one of the founders of the open source movement who drafted the original Open Source Definition, told The Register, "Let's be clear about WP Engine: It's built on WordPress. There would be no…

By that logic, the 30% Apple tax must be "extremely fair" because all iOS apps are built on both the software and hardware built by Apple, which are arguably far more complex than a piece of PHP software. (/sarcasm) Being "built" on something does not in itself imply value. What has to be taken into account is also "value that is added." If the underlying platform had high intrinsic value in itself, then no value wou…

I did not say that what WordPress was doing was "fair" I was trying to explain how their actions can make sense from their side of the table.

As to 30% being "fair" it's a fee structure that is known in advance, you can plan accordingly. I try to deal with the world as it is, not how I would like it to be.