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UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

bbc.co.uk

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Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#131

Post by Spooky23 »

atvrager wrote: post #78
Maxatar wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course Parliament will need to vote on this, but the Prime Minister of the UK has approved it and unlike in the US., in the UK votes are predominantly along party lines so it will pass.

Can I visit the world you're in, where votes in US Congress aren't predominantly along party lines?

The US system is far more dysfunctional — we have the Senate, which ensures that there isn’t an opportunity to conduct a vote along any line!

The real lever of power in congress is the parliamentary process in the Senate.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#132

Post by mhh__ »

skissane wrote: post #124
simonh wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the treaty is UK law, they can take the case to UK courts. It's not guaranteed to work, it depends on the legal technicalities, but the government has no say in the findings of UK courts. A lot can happen in 99 years, but as Hong Kong shows, the UK has a decent track record on long term legal continuity.

> If the treaty is UK law, they can take the case to UK courts. It's not guaranteed to work, it depends on the legal technicalities, but the government has no say in the findings of UK courts. Presently, the UK lacks an entrenched written constitution. Hence, any court decision can be overturned by an ordinary Act of the UK Parliament, passed by a simple majority. If a court makes a ruling which the government of the…

> Presently, the UK lacks an entrenched written constitution. Hence, any court decision can be overturned by an ordinary Act of the UK Parliament, passed by a simple majority

This is something that our America obsessed cultural elite have forgotten. The "Brown versus Education versus Alien versus predator" style of activist/political focus on the courts rather than parliament is quite ridiculous at times.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#133

Post by BurningFrog »

skeledrew wrote: post #129
BurningFrog wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The island is certainly in the risk zone, but I think that is also unknowable. My guess is that by carbon sequestering and/or SO2 injection in the stratosphere, the climate change will be controllable within a few decades.

It's very likely that we're already beyond some of the tipping points, and others are very close[0]. We're basically going into the mitigation phase now by my understanding. [0] https://www.space.com/climate-tipping-points-closer-than-rea...

I'm quite skeptical.

If we lower the CO2 levels (carbon sequestering) and cool the planet by reflecting more sunlight (SO2 injection in the stratosphere), I'm sure these alleged tipping points will be tipped back again, given some time.

It's good to be aware that doom sells, and the incentive to publish doom predictions for the money they make is very high. Of course, they can still be true...

We'll see how it goes :)

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#134

Post by teractiveodular »

itohihiyt wrote: post #28
janice1999 wrote: post #8

See also "How the British Empire and U.S. Department of Defense Murdered an Island Paradise" ... "the story of the Chagos Islands, a paradise founded by former slaves that was wiped out by the British empire so they could lease it to the U.S. as an air base" [1] [1] https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236...

I'm unaware of the details but wasn't the island chain sold to the British?

France ceded Mauritius and its outlying islands to the UK. When the UK granted Mauritius independence, it held back the Chagos Islands and forcibly deported all their inhabitants, leading to the status quo until today.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#135

Post by smegger001 »

simonh wrote: post #99
scottLobster wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but Mauritius isn't China. If the UK had reneged on the Hong Kong lease, there were economic and military options for China to potentially enforce it. A lot can happen in 99 years, but even assuming a serious decline in US economic/military might I don't see a scenario where Mauritius could successfully enforce the lease on its own.

If the treaty is UK law, they can take the case to UK courts. It's not guaranteed to work, it depends on the legal technicalities, but the government has no say in the findings of UK courts. A lot can happen in 99 years, but as Hong Kong shows, the UK has a decent track record on long term legal continuity.

until the government decides that only evidence they like can be presented to the court like the last administration did with their Rwanda plan for migrants.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#136

Post by mmooss »

callamdelaney wrote: post #127
BobAliceInATree wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in 99 years, most of the island probably will be underwater due to climate change.

And in 299 years the climate may have changed again, as it is wont to do (and has always done).

Is that a subtle attempt to argue that climate is changing on it's own, and not by human agency? Say it if you mean it.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#137

Post by stephen_g »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #106
rich_sasha wrote: post #41

I imagine whoever got the 99 year lease is feeling pretty pleased about it - that's basically forever as far as they can tell. On the other hand, I bet the UK in 1997 would have hoped for a longer lease on Hong Kong.

Hong Kong island was ceded to the British in perpetuity. The 99 years lease of the New Territories (not Hong Kong, technically) was an additional unequal treaty that the Qing were forced into on top of it, after they also had to give up Kowloon. The British could have asked for 150 years too, who'd have stopped them? Now the same happens to Britain in reverse. There is no benefit for any state to give up territory fo…

The Chagos Islands were't lawfully "their own land" according to an International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruling from 2019, which probably had something to do with this change.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#138

Post by nkrisc »

callamdelaney wrote: post #127
BobAliceInATree wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in 99 years, most of the island probably will be underwater due to climate change.

And in 299 years the climate may have changed again, as it is wont to do (and has always done).

And in 1000 years it will be different again. What’s your point? The fact it has and will always change doesn’t change anything about what’s happening now.

We can choose to mitigate the change or make it worse for ourselves.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#139

Post by stephen_g »

eadmund wrote: post #117

Very sad for the United Kingdom, I think. Back in 1982 Queen Elizabeth II refused to give up the Falklands at gunpoint; in 2024 King Charles III gives up the British Indian Ocean Territory without even a shot being fired.

Why is it sad for the UK to no longer claim as their own and occupy a small piece of land that the ICJ ruled they didn't even lawfully have sovereignty over?

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#140

Post by ikmckenz »

The US base on Diego Garcia is an exceptionally nasty bit of history: with the British murdering all the local islanders pet dogs - literally grabbing them from the arms of screaming children and telling them they were next - as part of an intimidation campaign to force them off the island so the US could have it’s intelligence outpost.
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