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I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

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Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#131

Post by gopher_space »

lucianbr wrote: post #103
chx wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. We as educators can show the interesting parts, the wonders of a field but more we can't do. The author of the article seems to have not managed to get through. Truth to be told, such happens every day in schools because most schools use completely outdated ways to teach -- frontal pedagogy itself is such -- and so ChatGPT is not their biggest problem but it…

> You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. This must have been a problem before the invention of LLMs. How was it solved before? Why didn't teaching go out of fashion when TV was invented, or why didn't math disappear when calculators were built? You yourself highlight problems that existed before LLMs, different problems in teaching. Obviously not all teachers quit because of those, and we still h…

> This must have been a problem before the invention of LLMs. How was it solved before?

- Encouraging the people who were bored to tears by 8th grade to go work in a lumber mill about it. - Encouraging parents to read to their children just all the fucking time. - Kicking out the troublemakers.

But the main solution has always been parents caring about education enough to get involved and spend time with their kids on it. It's something parents need to prioritize right when things are getting complicated and interesting in their own lives, and it's way easier to see schools as a community creche rather than a de facto cooperative at that point.

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#132

Post by xnx »

AndyNemmity wrote: post #106

Technology has always brought fear of dumbing us down, but it rarely does. When the internet came along, people worried we'd stop remembering things. When Google Maps appeared, people thought we'd forget how to read maps. Wait... I'm not sure anyone can read a map... maybe you're right.

Socrates warned against the spread of writing and the subsequent loss of the ability to memorize.

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#133

Post by ghusto »

golergka wrote: post #4
kibwen wrote: post #2

As long as LLM companies can hang on for another 15 years or so, there will be an entire generation of humans who will be as utterly incapable of living without LLMs in the same way that most people in developed countries are incapable of growing their own food. Intellectual lock-in will be their moat.

8 billion people growing their own food wouldn't be able to live in our planet even if they had all the necessary skills. Industrial agriculture and related technologies have radically increased the amount of food we can grow compared to individual small farmers.

> 8 billion people growing their own food wouldn't be able to live in our planet even if they had all the necessary skills

In the way we currently live, no they wouldn't. But it sounds like you're saying "wouldn't be able to", full stop, which I don't believe is true. There is no reason that all 8 billion people (with the "necessary skills") couldn't grow their own food, theoretically. It would require the west giving up the way we live, but it's worth noting that this doesn't make it impossible.

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#134

Post by kennethrc »

xnx wrote: post #132
AndyNemmity wrote: post #106

Technology has always brought fear of dumbing us down, but it rarely does. When the internet came along, people worried we'd stop remembering things. When Google Maps appeared, people thought we'd forget how to read maps. Wait... I'm not sure anyone can read a map... maybe you're right.

Socrates warned against the spread of writing and the subsequent loss of the ability to memorize.

Some things never change, apparently- one wonders if "Get off my lawn, you damn kids!" has been around since the First Grandfather

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#135

Post by JasserInicide »

golergka wrote: post #7
djcooley wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is terrifying. Our ability to think has been our biggest differentiator as a species. LLMs threaten this, and I'll die on that hill.

What's your opinion on calculators? Update: I meant to compare calculators to something like a slide ruler for logarithms. I'm not from US and I tend to forget that some people use calculators to take 20% of 500.

False equivalence.

With a calculator, the end result is still the same: a (typically numerical) answer of some kind. Writing one's own essay vs. getting an LLM to regurgitate it results in vastly different outcomes.

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#137

Post by from-nibly »

lucianbr wrote: post #66
adamc wrote: post #39

I read this and it struck a chord. A decade or more ago, a friend of mine teaching English in a major state university told me that he was getting lots of students who couldn't seem to read a novel. They could read the words on the page, but they couldn't focus enough to really understand it. My experience is that writing things out always improves my understanding of the subject. It's similar to forcing yourself to…

> If the result of chatgpt is even more kids skating through life without really picking up these skills... it may have tragic consequences. Learning to think well is the single most important thing I got from education. Do teachers have no role here? "If many kids make a certain choice, there will be big trouble". Maybe teach them to do better? Is the role of educator reduced to giving assignements and grading them…

Its the parents job to reinforce love of learning and an understanding of what the heck we are all here for.

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#138

Post by [deleted] »

kibwen wrote: post #129
rectang wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A conversation between Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson from A Study in Scarlet , by Arthur Conan Doyle: > That any civilized human being in this nineteenth century should not be aware that the earth travelled round the sun appeared to be to me such an extraordinary fact that I could hardly realize it. > "You appear to be astonished," he said, smiling at my expression of surprise. "Now that I do know it I shall do my b…

This is a very inapropos quote, because A Study In Scarlet was the first Holmes story, and Conan Doyle later retconned this because it turns out to be very important for a detective of Holmes' sort to be able to draw on seemingly-useless knowledge in order to make serendipitous leaps of logic.

[deleted]

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#139

Post by rectang »

kibwen wrote: post #129
rectang wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A conversation between Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson from A Study in Scarlet , by Arthur Conan Doyle: > That any civilized human being in this nineteenth century should not be aware that the earth travelled round the sun appeared to be to me such an extraordinary fact that I could hardly realize it. > "You appear to be astonished," he said, smiling at my expression of surprise. "Now that I do know it I shall do my b…

This is a very inapropos quote, because A Study In Scarlet was the first Holmes story, and Conan Doyle later retconned this because it turns out to be very important for a detective of Holmes' sort to be able to draw on seemingly-useless knowledge in order to make serendipitous leaps of logic.

I maintain that it's relevant because it illustrates how unreliably people assess just what knowledge is likely to be useful. If anything, the fact that it was retconned reinforces that such assessments can be wrong.

For example, there's a notion in this thread relying on GPS makes you soft and that unless you learn how to navigate the way your forebears did you'll be unprepared or something. I find this proposition just as dubious as the notion that actively forgetting that the earth goes around the sun helps you solve murder mysteries.

It seems to me as though such assessments are often driven by self-interest and the desire to maximize the social utility of one's own knowledge and experience. Of course, those who believe that that "GPS makes you soft" is unquestionably true may find fault with my perspective.

I also just find that passage hilarious. It's simultaneously so misguided and yet so compellingly crafted, which is what makes for great satire whether intentional or not. My Dad read Sherlock Holmes stories aloud to me when I was a kid and that passage has always stuck with me. But perhaps this wasn't the right audience to share it with.

Re: I Quit Teaching Because of ChatGPT

#140

Post by Yizahi »

vel0city wrote: post #63
Workaccount2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what is more readily apparent is that younger folks cannot reverse their car without looking at the camera. Older folks still turn around and look.

I cannot reverse my car without looking at the camera but that's because cars these days are so high off the ground, the rear windows are so tiny, and the pillars are so huge that I can't see much turning around. Someone about four feet tall can easily walk past the rear of my car and aside from the half second of them in the side mirrors (which I can't see if I'm looking backwards anyways) there's no way I'd be able…

Exactly. I was learning to drive in an ancient Fiat from 60s, it was like sitting in the aquarium, every direction was super visible. Next I had Daewoo Lanos which had reduced visibility in comparison, but still good. Now in the big modern sedan I wouldn't see anything when turning head, and mirrors have dead zones. Camera is a second best car upgrade I had in past decades, after automatic gearbox.
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