Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

innocenceproject.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 514 posts

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#131

Post by [deleted] »

knodi123 wrote: post #109
JeremyNT wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's plenty of evidence. He confessed to his girlfriend, and a cellmate. Be careful, this is hearsay and not evidence. Those people claim that he confessed to them, but there is a lot more context. Here is what the linked story says about the "he confessed" part: > The investigation had gone cold until a jail inmate named Henry Cole, a man with a lengthy record, claimed that Mr. Williams confessed to him that he…

> Both of these individuals were known fabricators Careful- it we're considering their history, then Mr Williams has a history of over a dozen counts of armed violence, burglary, robbery, and assault. > this is hearsay and not evidence Conflicting reports say that Asano provided verified information that had not been publicized. And Asano refused a cash reward for relaying the confessions she had heard. Regardless, h…

[deleted]

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#132

Post by sophacles »

jzackpete wrote: post #90
anonzzzies wrote: post #57

Still not sure with so many of the (esp right leaning) in the US claiming to be christian, can also accept this as a punishment. But I get nonsense begets more nonsense.

[flagged]

There was that time Jesus stepped in an prevented a completely legal death sentence from being carried out.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#133

Post by snapcaster »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #113
EasyMark wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As well as the US Supreme Court

[flagged]

No, we lost Roe v. Wade because the democrat party is so useless at representing our interests they failed to ever pass any law granting the right to abortion. Republicans didn't sit on their hands complacently for 40 years like democrats they followed a systematic approach to overturning it. Meanwhile the democrats did nothing except ask me for more money and continue to take L after L

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#134

Post by sophacles »

nemo44x wrote: post #73
kergonath wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your point and I am not arguing for his innocence, but both courts are highly suspect these days.

Everything is fallable, sure. But consider this: the guy had millions of dollars of pro bono legal machinery behind him and even still could not produce an argument or counter evidence to support his claim. Our system is amazingly transparent and corruption or outright denial of evidence would be clearly apparent. And it’s not there. The system works almost always but does get it wrong sometimes. I doubt that this wa…

> and corruption or outright denial of evidence would be clearly apparent

Not really - the legal discovery rules require full disclosure of all evidence, yet you regularly hear about how prosecutors don't disclose evidence. Sometimes the appeals process will grant a new trial, sometimes they overturn, but often the judges will just say "we're not going to bother worrying about the lack of a fair trial". It happens often enough that prosecutors are willing to take the gamble on it, otherwise it wouldn't continue to be a common news story.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#135

Post by JohnMakin »

snapcaster wrote: post #133
01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No, we lost Roe v. Wade because the democrat party is so useless at representing our interests they failed to ever pass any law granting the right to abortion. Republicans didn't sit on their hands complacently for 40 years like democrats they followed a systematic approach to overturning it. Meanwhile the democrats did nothing except ask me for more money and continue to take L after L

> Meanwhile the democrats did nothing except ask me for more money and continue to take L after L

I agree with you, except to me it's far more insidious - they used the threat of things like roe v wade being overturned and reproductive rights being taken away to drive donations and voter turnout, thus incentivizing themselves to never actually deal with that looming problem.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#136

Post by tristan957 »

subsaharancoder wrote: post #115
kergonath wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being Christian is about forgiving and loving your neighbours, isn’t it?

I love my children and I forgive them when they do wrong, but there's always consequences for actions.

Nobody here is saying there shouldn't be consequences. Instead we are saying that every single person should have the right to seek forgiveness from their creator(s). If you execute someone before they have have made things right (or not), you are playing the role of God.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#137

Post by tristan957 »

ctxc wrote: post #85
spacechild1 wrote: post #8

There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized country!

I believe there are heinous crimes that do. Both fitting the crime and as a deterrent.

The US has more violent crime than other Western countries, so as a deterrent, it does not work. Perhaps instead of wasting money on death penalty appeals and killing innocent people, we should think about how we as a country can overhaul the prison system and our societal structures.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#138

Post by knodi123 »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #119
JeremyNT wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's plenty of evidence. He confessed to his girlfriend, and a cellmate. Be careful, this is hearsay and not evidence. Those people claim that he confessed to them, but there is a lot more context. Here is what the linked story says about the "he confessed" part: > The investigation had gone cold until a jail inmate named Henry Cole, a man with a lengthy record, claimed that Mr. Williams confessed to him that he…

There was also a $10,000 reward for information which easily could have incentivized them to provide false testimony

According to the governor,

> The girlfriend never requested the reward for information about Ms. Gayle’s murder, despite claims that she was only interested in money.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#139

Post by throw_evidence »

shusaku wrote: post #18
rdtsc wrote: post #2

> Even the victim’s family believes life without parole is the appropriate sentence That is odd, if there is no evidence that links him to the crime why not argue to let him go? Is that just from a desire to have someone punished, no matter who it is.

As far as I could find reading about this case, the “evidence of innocence” is very flimsy. But it’s a reasonable moral stand by the family to want to stay the execution if they think there is even a slim chance of innocence.

Posting as a throwaway for obvious reasons...

"evidence of innocence"...

I was once accused of a financial crime, around taking money from an account. I was, admittedly, guilty, however, the amount claimed was nearly triple the amount that I had taken (there were multiple shenanigans happening).

When my attorney and I said "Actually, we think the amount is $X, not $3X, because x y and z", we had an extraordinarily difficult time with the Prosecutor, who wanted US to justify why we thought the amount was only $X.

Apropos of any plea or deal or whatever, no... the onus is on the Prosecution to verifiably demonstrate the loss. Not for me to justify why I think the amount is different. Ironically, the justification we did provide came from the Prosecution. "You said the loss was $Z, including $Y in checks which were diverted. Witness statements and other testimony showed that these checks were NOT diverted, by their own words. Ergo, the loss is $Z-$Y."

Prosecutor was still "you need to show me the math for what that equates to". "No, that amounts to incriminating self, and is, bluntly, not my responsibility. You need to assert how you came to the number you are claiming in the charge."

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#140

Post by krferriter »

giarc wrote: post #25
jmclnx wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot help but wonder if his race had something do with the outcome :( The US Supreme Court denied a stay, with 3 liberal justices saying they would have stopped the execution. Thus my comment.

I haven't read anything about the Supreme Court's decision, but did they dissent on the grounds that they believed he was innocent, or that capital punishment shouldn't be allowed (and not comment on his guilt)?

The US Supreme Court's decision was that there was not grounds for them to interfere in the case, because the state courts had already provided sufficient due process. They made no official ruling about guilt or capital punishment.
Post reply on HN