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Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

nytimes.com

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Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#131

Post by sebazzz »

TibbityFlanders wrote: post #23

It's frightening how authoritarian the Left has become around the world. Ambiguous laws about'hate' seem poised to protect the world from thought crimes by curtailing basic human rights. In this context Musk is right and has the power to bring change. He will lose a lot of that power under a Harris presidency that has advertised it plans to continue the crusade against freedom of speech.

Wow, just wow. The gloves are off. I wouldn’t expect anything this naive on HN.

There is a difference between freedom of expression (freedom of opinion) and freedom of speech. The latter contains the former, but is much more than that because freedom of expression stops where hate and discrimination begins.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#132

Post by _heimdall »

malermeister wrote: post #125
_heimdall wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never actually understood the difference, curious if you can help fill in a few blanks for me. How is expression different than speech here? Is a European really free to express themselves when they are limited to expression that the government approves (or hasn't banned)? It feels like a lazy attempt at rebranding speech so they can claim its free...with government restrictions.

You are free to express your opinions ("I don't like immigrants from Africa"), but you are not free to choose any manner of speech, as there's restrictions in certain areas, such as hate speech or inciting violence ("Kill the N-words!")

Isn't that full of loopholes though?

It seems like that would allow someone in Germany to say "I think the Nazis were 100% right in what they did to the Jews", though my understanding is that would be very much illegal under German law.

Similarly, would it be illegal to say "Kill the N-words!" but not "I think all the N-words should be killed!"?

Obvious caveat - this is a highly contentious topic. Thank you for helping me better understand European laws specifically. For anyone passing by, I'm obviously not condoning the opinions of the example statements above.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#133

Post by malermeister »

_heimdall wrote: post #132
malermeister wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are free to express your opinions ("I don't like immigrants from Africa"), but you are not free to choose any manner of speech, as there's restrictions in certain areas, such as hate speech or inciting violence ("Kill the N-words!")

Isn't that full of loopholes though? It seems like that would allow someone in Germany to say "I think the Nazis were 100% right in what they did to the Jews", though my understanding is that would be very much illegal under German law. Similarly, would it be illegal to say "Kill the N-words!" but not "I think all the N-words should be killed!"? Obvious caveat - this is a highly contentious topic. Thank you for helpi…

It certainly is a lot more ambiguous than absolute free speech, yes. I think your example would still count as hate speech inciting violence against black people. The Nazi one I'm not sure off the top of my head, to be honest.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#134

Post by bradgranath »

lynx23 wrote: post #54
hkt wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's happening is clear: Elon doesn't like Lula, the Brazilian president. Lula is left wing: his predecessor was a Trump-esque idiot. I'd guess many of Lula's actual policies harm the Musk's material interests in some way, or are just things he doesn't like. It might literally just be that Musk has heard Lula is left wing and therefore wants to make life as hard as possible.

Thats where we are now. You also couldn't refrain from calling a political oponent "Trump-esque idiot". Imagine what you would do to them if you had enough money to actually go out for a fight?

Call him a Trumpesque Idiot from my personal social media platform?

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#135

Post by 6nf »

fmajid wrote: post #75
cjpearson wrote: post #2

Is this a principled defense of free speech or a case of a man treating ostensibly independent companies as divisions of his personal conglomerate?

You will find Musk's pretend "free-speech absolutism" is highly selective, and only applies to far-right voices. He's repeatedly censored his critics and journalists on his platform.

Example?

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#136

Post by cassianoleal »

Gud wrote: post #117
cassianoleal wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly makes whatever censorship might be taking place less skewed by Musk's personal whims.

No, because that speech could (presumably, can never be sure what’s allowed in a quasi-democracy) take place on another website.

Yes but it wouldn't be subjected to Musk's censorship on Random Website, whereas on Twitter it is.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#137

Post by tmottabr »

diegoholiveira wrote: post #114
tmottabr wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latin america have the world largest Lithium reserves, specially accross Argentina, Bolivia and Chile being the three largest and Brazil being the 7th.. The largest lithium mining company in the region is Sigma Lithium.. Tesla was negotiating to buy the Sigma Lithium but now the Chinese BYD is the favorite.. [0] [1] China companies are currently owning the EV market in Brazil , and many other developing contries, and…

> Musk expect that a right wing government will align with him, and be in favor of blocking China and that would open the door for him to buy the mining companies instead.. Things in Brazil are not simple as that. Bolsonaro, the latest right wing president, did more business with china and russia than expected. He was one of the first chief of state to fly to Moscou when Russia invade Ukraine, to reinsure brazil woul…

He did more business then expected but he did not miss an opportunity to speak ill of china.

There were even multiple letters from the Chinese embassy complaining about stuff he said..

China even blocked buying meat from Brazil for a while with the excuse of mad cow disease..

So regardless of how much business Bolsonaro did with China, he would be more inclined to help Elon in blocking China then the current left wing goverment is..

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#138

Post by guax »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #94
olivierduval wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is X a bralizian institution ? I don't think so... so X has no right to oppose this decision ! If the judge decision is illegal, that's the problem of the brazilian political and law system, and of the brazilian People. But X is not a brazilian citizen AFAIK... so it either follow the rules, leave the country or is illegal. Moreover, when Starlink refuse to respect a court order, Starlink is although a problem (be it…

People can do whatever they want. They just need to accept the consequences. I post my comments here knowing there's a risk this judge might learn of my existence and persecute me for them. I chose to accept that risk because I find this situation to appalling to keep quiet about it. This wasn't a choice I made lightly. My own parents who lived through last century's military dictatorship recognized the signs and ask…

> I post my comments here knowing there's a risk this judge might learn of my existence and persecute me for them

My brother in Christ. There is ZERO chance of this to happen for this kind of comment and to me It only tells me you need to distance yourself a bit from this. Focus on something positive for a week. You're going down a path that is so far outside the realm of possibilities at this time that's worrisome.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#139

Post by [deleted] »

tmottabr wrote: post #137
diegoholiveira wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Musk expect that a right wing government will align with him, and be in favor of blocking China and that would open the door for him to buy the mining companies instead.. Things in Brazil are not simple as that. Bolsonaro, the latest right wing president, did more business with china and russia than expected. He was one of the first chief of state to fly to Moscou when Russia invade Ukraine, to reinsure brazil woul…

He did more business then expected but he did not miss an opportunity to speak ill of china. There were even multiple letters from the Chinese embassy complaining about stuff he said.. China even blocked buying meat from Brazil for a while with the excuse of mad cow disease.. So regardless of how much business Bolsonaro did with China, he would be more inclined to help Elon in blocking China then the current left win…

[deleted]

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#140

Post by [deleted] »

greesil wrote: post #126
rowanG077 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes we desperately do need it. Sure if you are living in your comfy American city you don't see the need. But most places on earth actually don't have a convenient cell tower or terrestrial network. Starlink is much more efficient to cover those areas then manually building out infrastructure there. It's not even a contest.

Yeah but you don't need 10000 satellites to provide cell coverage when 100 would do. Hybrid ground station networks have been a thing for a long time now... if your goal is to provide mobile networks for the lowest possible cost to the end user. That's not Starlink's goal -- these "uninternetnetted" folks don't have money to pay, they typically don't even have electricity. Rural broadband in developed countries do. T…

[deleted]
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