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Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

mono-project.com

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Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#131

Post by qingcharles »

lloydatkinson wrote: post #96
dtquad wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft's own FOSS multiplatform implementation of the .NET runtime is now much more performant and feature complete than Mono. However Mono is easier to embed into other applications and easier to port to new platforms. That is for example why it's used for the .NET/Blazor WebAssembly stuff. Microsoft still maintains their own fork of Mono for this specific use case. Mono also implements some of the legacy Windows…

Winforms and WPF are both very maintained and supported for .NET 8 on Windows, to clarify. Good cross platform desktop frameworks include Avalonia.

I think MS wants you to use this?

https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/apps/maui

I was pleased to see WinForms got some updates in .NET9. I really thought they'd left it. I still use it every day when I need to spin up a new tool to do some little task that needs a GUI.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#132

Post by stuaxo »

simion314 wrote: post #101
pionar wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use third party libs like Avalonia[1] or Uno[2] [1] https://avaloniaui.net/ [2] https://platform.uno/

Sure, nobody wants to write Winforms new applications today My point is about running existing applications on Linux, there are still issues with running .Net GUI stuff under wine and Mono was not a perfect implementation. I read in other comments that the newer .Net cross platform stuff is not a replacement for Mono for running this old applications. (nobody will rewrite them to use the current GUI stuff from MS sin…

For this, having wine in charge makes sense - though, as with many things wine you could be waiting a while.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#133

Post by bonesss »

kelnos wrote: post #108
rgovostes wrote: post #94

I always assumed Microsoft did not condone Wine or other re-implementations of their APIs (like ReactOS), but that they were protected by DMCA reverse engineering provisions and anyway too insignificant to send the legal team after. Wikipedia says, > Until 2020, Microsoft had not made any public statements about Wine. ... On 16 February 2005, Ivan Leo Puoti discovered that Microsoft had started checking the Windows R…

I think Microsoft has finally realized that its animus toward projects like Wine and pre-acquisition Mono was ultimately unproductive, and a net negative for Microsoft itself. I still don't trust MS's motives in general, but I think they at least recognize that Wine/Proton helps make the Win32 and DirectX APIs a sort of de-facto cross-platform standard when it comes to things like desktop gaming, and that this is a g…

I think it's just such a clear business-razor because of the cloud: can I take my app and spin up a bajillion cheapo servers with no licensing costs using that stack?

If the answer for .Net was 'no' then there are meaningful domains where people would just jump ship in a second. Research, academia, teaching, and certain government areas pop to mind. Keeping Linux support, because of that server dominance, is a core concern for them.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#135

Post by [deleted] »

neonsunset wrote: post #68

For everyone who is confused by what is going on, here's the explanation: Today, there are 2.5 Mono's: Mono that lives in https://github.com/mono/mono . This is the original Mono codebase that was written back then and was the .NET Framework for Linux, with corresponding compat. and such, pioneered by Miguel De Icaza, who now seems to be happier in Swift land. At the present day, it was receiving very little maintena…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#136

Post by deelowe »

kelnos wrote: post #108
rgovostes wrote: post #94

I always assumed Microsoft did not condone Wine or other re-implementations of their APIs (like ReactOS), but that they were protected by DMCA reverse engineering provisions and anyway too insignificant to send the legal team after. Wikipedia says, > Until 2020, Microsoft had not made any public statements about Wine. ... On 16 February 2005, Ivan Leo Puoti discovered that Microsoft had started checking the Windows R…

I think Microsoft has finally realized that its animus toward projects like Wine and pre-acquisition Mono was ultimately unproductive, and a net negative for Microsoft itself. I still don't trust MS's motives in general, but I think they at least recognize that Wine/Proton helps make the Win32 and DirectX APIs a sort of de-facto cross-platform standard when it comes to things like desktop gaming, and that this is a g…

Microsoft as a company is extremely myopic. Budgets are scrutinized down to the penny every few months at very senior levels. This drives a culture of immediacy. Wine was a threat until Microsoft realized everyone in tech had moved to service based business models (aka "cloud"). Only afterwards, did they "realize" Linux as a threat to their long term viability no longer mattered.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#137

Post by Goz3rr »

kragen wrote: post #126
zbowling wrote: post #31

I worked on Mono a lot back in the early 2000s (back in the SVN days before it moved to Git, even). This move makes a lot of sense. Things evolved a lot over the years. Mono's legacy goals, which are to be a portable CLR (.NET) runtime for platforms that Microsoft didn't care about, don't make much sense today. Mono made a lot of sense for running places where full .NET didn't, like in full AOT environments like on t…

i want to love dotnet-core, especially since godot switched from mono in godot 3 to dotnet-core in godot 4, but so far i haven't been able to currently debian has a mono package but no dotnet-core package. i'm not sure why this is; usually when debian lacks a popular nominally open-source package like this, it's either because it fails to build from source, or because it has some kind of tricky licensing pitfall that…

Even with AOT compilation, as someone who loves C# and also does embedded development in C I would personally say a garbage collected language like C# has no place there.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#139

Post by kragen »

Goz3rr wrote: post #137
kragen wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i want to love dotnet-core, especially since godot switched from mono in godot 3 to dotnet-core in godot 4, but so far i haven't been able to currently debian has a mono package but no dotnet-core package. i'm not sure why this is; usually when debian lacks a popular nominally open-source package like this, it's either because it fails to build from source, or because it has some kind of tricky licensing pitfall that…

Even with AOT compilation, as someone who loves C# and also does embedded development in C I would personally say a garbage collected language like C# has no place there.

not everything running on a 20-mips 32-bit microcontroller with 2 kibibytes of sram needs to be hard real time and failure-free, and of course the esp32 has hundreds of kibibytes

and, correct me if i'm wrong here, but doesn't c# allow you to statically allocate structs just as much as c does? i'd think you'd be able to avoid garbage collection about as much as you want, but i've never written much beyond 'hello, world' in c#

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#140

Post by sublimefire »

qingcharles wrote: post #129
rgovostes wrote: post #94

I always assumed Microsoft did not condone Wine or other re-implementations of their APIs (like ReactOS), but that they were protected by DMCA reverse engineering provisions and anyway too insignificant to send the legal team after. Wikipedia says, > Until 2020, Microsoft had not made any public statements about Wine. ... On 16 February 2005, Ivan Leo Puoti discovered that Microsoft had started checking the Windows R…

Microsoft in 2024 feels like a different beast. All the MS devs I know seem fully on board with totally cross-platform support. Half of them are coding on MacBooks and I would hazard a guess that a good proportion of .NET web sites being built are being deployed onto Linux boxen.

Few work on Macbooks, it is more about using WSL on the dev machines or even using DevBox instances.
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