Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

switowski.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 279 posts

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#131

Post by Vinnl »

LunaSea wrote: post #53
rethab wrote: post #29

We cannot forget that we also loose something with working remotely (say more than 75% of the time) and that is the occasional bumping into each other at the water cooler or in the morning when coming in. These are situations you can artificially create by scheduling calls to socialize etc, but that is still not comparable with being in an actual office. By categorically saying no to quick calls, you're isolating you…

In my experience forced online water cooler talk has never worked and was always incredibly awkward and boring.

Yeah, I know there's people who are able to make it work, but not me, in general.

I can get a fairly similar experience on the org chat, though, and sometimes at the start or ends of meetings. And just meeting up in real life every now and then helps a lot.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#133

Post by sitkack »

maxehmookau wrote: post #59

I'm a huge advocate of full-time remote working, but those like me who feel it is the future of work need to stop being so dogmatic about how communication should happen. I don't really like posts like this. Sure, it's a great idea in a remote context to write down how you like to communicate, and how you like to be communicated with at work. (You should do it, it's great!) However, not everybody will agree with you…

I agree with the authors sentiment, and to some degree yours. We should be flexible, but we should all try to better ourselves and others.

Their post is meant to change norms, basically a, "Hey we really should all understand why nohello.net was created". Oddly enough, the post itself is my version of nohello. I'd prefer that they started with the conclusion and then build from there. [1]

The author is attempting to change norms. I already fixed it with my kid, she asks amazing questions and includes all the right context.

It isn't that they don't agree or disagree, very few "hello'ers" will be able to defend or even explain their position. It isn't about preference or dislike. A blind "Hello" isn't a communication style, it is a faux pas.

It doesn't matter if you are remote or on the next desk over, we should do better with communication. And that includes how to deliver the message that a blind hello is poor form.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLUF_(communication)

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/inverted-pyramids-in-cybers...

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#136

Post by alex_suzuki »

LunaSea wrote: post #124
refurb wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've never been in an office and had a productive, random interaction with a coworker? Like, never? I've had it happen on a regular basis. I see someone and suddenly remember to tell them "oh, I did some work on that long ago, I'll share it with you" or you overhear a conversation about a topic you didn't know they were looking at?

> You've never been in an office and had a productive, random interaction with a coworker? I absolutely did have these interactions but simply not online.

Same. I have fond memories of working in a small team (~8 engineers) in a single room around 2010-ish. We'd often just walk to each other's desks, read the body language and ask each other "what are you working on?" and just engage in these unscripted, natural discussions that may have resulted in a pair programming session, or a cigarette outside accompanied by some good old-fashioned complaining about management.

Don't get me wrong, I think working remotely and home office are great. But something was undeniably lost, at least for me.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#137

Post by Vinnl »

quacksilver wrote: post #102

As a junior i often wrote "Hi, do you have a moment? (ok if not)" in slack (or lync at the time) to senior people when I had questions. I then didn't expect a reply unless the senior person was not busy or bored. If no reply within 5 mins I would ask the next person. I did this when I had a question that perhaps 20 people who I knew could answer, though I had no way of telling who (if anyone) was free to chat somethi…

Suggestion for better option: ask your question in the first message (so they have a feel for how long the "moment" might take, and/or potentially can ask it right away), and ask it in public where everybody can see it.

I'd be OK with skipping that last option; asking for help is hard enough as it is, and I can imagine people not wanting to flaunt their imagined ignorance. Which is also why it's good for more senior people to do it, so they can set that culture that shows that it is OK.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#138

Post by ath3nd »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #108
prepend wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flow state is really powerful, but it’s not constant. I don’t want to be in flow for 40 hours per week. And to tell the truth if I get a few hours of flow a week, I’m lucky. So I don’t want to shut the door on any interactions in the unlikely chance that it interrupts me in my optimal state. What I like to do is block off “deep work” in my calendar a few times a week. Then people can think about if they want to inter…

Unfortunately as of lately my professional life has been terrible for flow state due to various reasons related to working in a corporation. So I might consider switching jobs. Interruptions, blockers, depending on others, etc. But I love being in flow state, luckily I can still do it with my side projects. With side projects without being interrupted I can easily spend the whole day coding and at the same time build…

> But I love being in flow state, luckily I can still do it with my side projects. With side projects without being interrupted I can easily spend the whole day coding and at the same time building 10x to 100x as much as at a corporation job. Of course it's less realistic in a large company to have it, but I just wish my actual work was like that.

Unpopular opinion: a very small team of skilled programmers that have experience working together and are often/continuously in flow (whether alone, or pair programming), can 10x/100x outpeform multiple teams in a large corporate setting.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#139

Post by liveoneggs »

Gravityloss wrote: post #73
rethab wrote: post #29

We cannot forget that we also loose something with working remotely (say more than 75% of the time) and that is the occasional bumping into each other at the water cooler or in the morning when coming in. These are situations you can artificially create by scheduling calls to socialize etc, but that is still not comparable with being in an actual office. By categorically saying no to quick calls, you're isolating you…

I notice I often breathe deeply after a telecon. As if I was holding my breath during it. Even if the telecon was quite laid back. It doesn't happen in water cooler talks. Have there been studies about what causes this, or even how to alleviate?

stand during the meeting instead of sitting

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#140

Post by sensanaty »

cqqxo4zV46cp wrote: post #55
daghamm wrote: post #33

This may sound reasonable, but the world is not black and white. If we turn every quick question into a complete meeting with agenda and whatnot, the organisation will become extremly bureaucratic. And at some point people will start making guesses instead of reaching out to experts because it is just too much work. So in my opinion, the author is a little bit selfish too. The company cannot 100% align with what best…

Yep. Frankly, these articles are just keyboard warrior antics from introverts that are feeling on top of the world with the wave of WFH. Conflating “what’ll get me back to my IDE faster” and “how can I make all communication so structured that I never have to genuinely interact with anyone at work on a human level” with an actual increase in productivity is just a sign of immense naivety. Thankfully these people tend…

I'm the furthest thing from an introvert and I still despise having managers pulling me into unprompted random bullshit calls that could've been a slack message, usually because they don't read the status messages posted by the people doing the actual work.

The large, overwhelming majority of impromptu meetings I've ever been in that didn't have a fellow engineer on the other end of the call have been nothing but massive time wasters. And usually if it's another engineer a few messages is more than enough, anyways.

Post reply on HN