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The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

ribbonfarm.com

131–140 of 190 posts

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give examples of zombie institutions?

He did: > Universities, government agencies, big tech monopolies, public sector unions, complacent companies in industries that haven't changed in 50 years so: Harvard, FDA, Google, American Postal Workers Union, State Farm. Also banks, I would say.

> Also banks, I would say

Banks get “torn apart and cannibalized” more frequently than industrials.

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#132
post #80

I’ve read this before, and while an entertaining thought experiment, I’m not sure there is anything really actionable here. Maybe just be mindful that people are trying to exploit you.

Not all companies are like this. Some small companies have good leaders. Cherish them if you find one.

[deleted]

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#133
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is because extraversion is partially composed of assertiveness (big five), which directly indicates your influence on your nearby human environment

"People get promoted because they influence others" is a description of the problem, not a justification of it.

> "People get promoted because they influence others" is a description of the problem

What do you think a leader’s job is?

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#135
post #117
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well these observations have nothing with to do with the main conundrum - How do you keep a group of chimps who all have different interests, personalities, needs, beliefs, values, upbringings, culture, religion, language, history etc etc in sync? And these days groups grow quite large quite fast. Historically, if you take rewards, bribery, force, domination and manipulation out of the story, the babblers/non threate…

I feel like we forgot (or deprioritized - or maybe never genuinely prioritized) how to NOT have to sync on everything all the time. not everyone needs to be in a group. not everyone in a group needs to be in sync with interests AND personalities AND needs AND beliefs AND... but I see the paradox here: we need to believe the above is true to live happier and more meaningfully

> not everyone needs to be in a group

Not everyone is in a civilisation. Few people in a civilisation would rather be in e.g. Sudan or Ethiopia.

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#136

> Today, any time an organization grows too brittle, bureaucratic and disconnected from reality, it is simply killed, torn apart and cannibalized, rather than reformed. I actually think the overall argument of the essay makes more sense when you realize the above comment actually isn't true for the large majority of organizations. Universities, government agencies, big tech monopolies, public sector unions, complacen…

I foundationally disagree with your premise

If you look at the composition and charters of these old “institutions” like governments, universities etc… the scope and function, the amount of resources put towards them etc… is very much not static.

In fact, they are exceptionally different than they were at their founding, and this is specifically true for universities with how they were funded at the beginning versus how they are funded now as well as what their role in the social organization of society is

So this concept that there are these big monolithic things - by function of simply not changing names - haven’t changed, is silly at best

The Crimson even did a huge writeup of this:

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/5/22/yir-college-adm...

Bottom line, all of these institutions have been captured by moneyed interests and that’s the cycle

Public goods get privatized by dominating financiers and used to benefit the in group they serve while passing all externalities to the out group

Aka “capitalism” - and yes, this applies to the Soviet Union perfectly because the Bolshevik coopted all of the land in Soviet territories on behalf of the bosheviks and had nothing to do with individual labor power - so please save your communist complaints for somebody who is promoting communism because that’s not me

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#137
I think there are some insightful gems in there, but it doesn't add up to a grand unified theory of management.

One company I worked at was ran by a narcissist, who promoted anyone who sucked up to him - the harder the suck, the higher the office. Not because they were underachieving losers or whatnot. And as a result most people he promoted were the Clueless, who genuinely sucked up the nonsense he spewed. The company was, somehow, very successful.

Anther company was all sociopath going at 100 mph flat out, hoping to make enough dosh before it all explodes. No losers or clueless on board beyond probation.

Another had a great guy at the top, who was seriously nice, competent at the subject matter, and fair and concerned with the well-being of his people, we're all in this together etc. If anything, he was the Clueless. His lieutenants in turn were incompetent sociopaths, busy with keeping him happy while flailing their arms to appear like they are trying to control the chaos, all the time sucking at the teat of the Really Nice CEO. He didn't promote them because they were sociopath, but he promoted them for some reason and didn't have the heart to fire them.

As much as I love the cynicism, I think reality is more complicated. But for sure, being a psycho and not actually caring about the work or people is a great boost to a successful career.

"The Office" analogies are a bit convoluted to me as well. Jim's climbing the greasy pole of company management isn't, to me, embracing Sociopathy, but if anything, trying to make his Loser life more comfortable. Swallow a few stupid company slogans, toe a line, and in return have less work and more money. Not really his opening up to screwing other people or relentlessly jumping ship to a higher position with the competitors.

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#138

I’ve read this before, and while an entertaining thought experiment, I’m not sure there is anything really actionable here. Maybe just be mindful that people are trying to exploit you.

Part 2 gets into that.

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-...

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did: > Universities, government agencies, big tech monopolies, public sector unions, complacent companies in industries that haven't changed in 50 years so: Harvard, FDA, Google, American Postal Workers Union, State Farm. Also banks, I would say.

> Also banks, I would say Banks get “torn apart and cannibalized” more frequently than industrials.

That often doesn't seem to be a result of competitive pressure, but of hubris. I think in many of those cases, in the framework set out by the article, the sociopaths would still be in charge of the company.

Re: The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to “The Office” (2009)

#140

To be read in conjunction with the Babbler hypothesis - The amount of time some people spend talking gets them into leadership positions. It doesn't matter what they say, just how much they rant on. I read that, and realised how insanely true it is

A related type is the Jargonist, who not only speaks endlessly but in a stream of acronyms, buzz words, and insider coded language.

Name drops?
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