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Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

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Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#131

Post by 6d6b73 »

elzbardico wrote: post #55
HayBale wrote: post #4

Not that I want to be Debbie downer but as always in case of Polish (which I am also are) overexaggerated and having that strange believe that if not the communists Poland would be a global superpower. Its enough to go the wiki (both about the computer and the inventor) to see that the situation was not that clear. The performance was greatly overstated, it depended on the import of the component from the west etc. M…

Yes. I love my Polish friends, but some of them have this strange mania of exageration and rewriting history as if Poland would be glorious empire if not from the subhuman soviets(russians actually), or because the envy of the evil germans.

I believe there is a simple reason for that - if you're sandwiched between two genocidal maniacs and every decade of not being subjugated by at least one of them is a success, you take pride in every small accomplishment. If you add to that the fact that even these small accomplishments are often not only not recognized but often usurped by others as their own - it can make you little too protective of your history.

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#132

Post by limit499karma »

tivert wrote: post #17

> Thus in 1970, the Microcomputers Plant was established. Located in Warsaw, it employed Polish workers but used British components and financing – the required parts weren’t available in Poland and the communists weren’t at all eager to throw money at the project.... > Karpiński’s computer could be so small and resilient because it used Western components. Even though they were vital to the functioning of the K-202,…

Any nation that becomes captive to ideological selection for its key sectors will naturally tend to selecting subpar individuals in position of power.

This is a cautionary tale. The same thing has happened to our nation, America, with the attendant decline across the board over the past 20-30 years.

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#133

Post by Koshkin »

jojobas wrote: post #113
psalminen wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like most economic theories that are implemented around the globe today to me.

There are shades of grey, and then there's jet black.

Apple calls it "space black."

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#134

Post by Koshkin »

jojobas wrote: post #98
lolinder wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in other words the crappy economic theory drove the militarism, lest the population recognize the fallout of the theory for what it was?

It's not obvious that the militarism wasn't primary to the theory. World revolution won't make itself.

Well, to be fair, the idea was abandoned back in the 1930s.

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#135

Post by waffleiron »

6d6b73 wrote: post #129
ein0p wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I’m not arguing with that, Stalin also did massive purges of his own officers, leaving the red army severely deficient right before the war, but as horrible as this is, this is not total genocide, which is what awaited Poland had the USSR not won the war.

German genocide of other nations consisted of exterminating weak people and forced labor for the strong. They integrated people with "Aryan features" into their society and we're slowly getting rid of the rest. Soviets exterminated scientist, priests, doctors and officers - the very people who could fight back. They integrated poor and weak. Their idea was to melt the remaining people into one nation. This is a form…

> exterminated scientist, priests, doctors and officers

So did the Nazis, in higher quantities too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligenzaktion

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#136

Post by broken-kebab »

jojobas wrote: post #125
defrost wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the case of the planned economies of China nor the USSR (post Stalin, IIRC) nor Russia (if, indeed, there's still a plan there).

There was no starting any private enterprise in USSR until Perestroika (1988ish). Best you could do is to suggest doing something to the government and if you knew the right people you could be allowed to, given some resources etc. Think starting a project within a large company, except you can't quit and start on your own.

To be more precise, private enterprise was a crime in USSR until perestroika with punishments ranging up to death. But some people still risked

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#137

Post by ein0p »

6d6b73 wrote: post #129
ein0p wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I’m not arguing with that, Stalin also did massive purges of his own officers, leaving the red army severely deficient right before the war, but as horrible as this is, this is not total genocide, which is what awaited Poland had the USSR not won the war.

German genocide of other nations consisted of exterminating weak people and forced labor for the strong. They integrated people with "Aryan features" into their society and we're slowly getting rid of the rest. Soviets exterminated scientist, priests, doctors and officers - the very people who could fight back. They integrated poor and weak. Their idea was to melt the remaining people into one nation. This is a form…

Jesus freaking Christ, read the German plans for Slavs - it's all public information. They were going to starve and work them all until they are dead, and then populate the lands with Germans. Poles are Slavs. To draw moral equivalence between Soviets and Hitler is idiotic. If it wasn't for the Soviets, you'd be writing this in German, or (depending on your ethnicity) you wouldn't exist at all.

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#138

Post by broken-kebab »

Koshkin wrote: post #134
jojobas wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not obvious that the militarism wasn't primary to the theory. World revolution won't make itself.

Well, to be fair, the idea was abandoned back in the 1930s.

The idea that was abandoned in 30s, was of the world revolution happening so soon that it should be prioritized over trade, and diplomacy with capitalist countries. It was replaced with flexible strategy of long-term struggle for world domination which USSR faithfully followed until its demise

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#139

Post by ein0p »

6d6b73 wrote: post #128
ein0p wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wouldn’t have to “conquer” it. They’d just march straight through and end up in Ukrainian SSR and Belarus. My point is, the USSR was hardly unique in signing “intersting” pacts in late 30s, and its desire to surround itself with at least some semblance of buffer states is quite understandable given that there are, famously, no natural geographical obstacles between it and invading European hordes. And regardless…

In september there were about 300k soldiers in the parts that soviets later occupied. If you don't think that would slow Germans down you're wrong. But more importantly during the occupation Soviets killed thousands of people in Katyn and other places, and sent close to 2 mln to gulags. They stole art, books and removed machines from factories. They raped women. And they kept doing all these dispicable acts even afte…

Poland also cooperated with Nazis before 1941. So did much of the rest of Europe and Britain. And no, it wouldn't have slowed Germans down, just like it did not slow them down in 1939. In general, European countries did not put up much of a fight, and some (Romania and Finland, for example) explicitly and willingly fought on Hitler's side. As to the crimes, name me an Axis or Allied country that did not commit horrific war crimes in that war. I'll wait.

Re: Jacek Karpińśki, the computer genius the communists couldn't stand (2017)

#140

Post by broken-kebab »

mordae wrote: post #108
throwuxiytayq wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article presents a beautiful, self-contained, anecdotal but representative example of why communism never worked, doesn’t work, won’t work, and wouldn’t work in your imaginary parallel spider-man universe scenario.

It's not really about communism, though. You'd have to be blind not to see parallels under capitalism. Employees cannot profit from inventions and improvements, so they don't engage in them. Improving efficiency means budget cuts and animosity from under performers. This might not be true for smallest companies, but those don't really drive the economy.

We can say with certainty that capitalist economy has a feature of an invention/idea implementation of which is funded, and pursued by motivated people with the goal of becoming rich (often known as 'startups'). Sometimes they succeed, and give a push to economy, or science. No equivalent exists in communist model.
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