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The secret of Minecraft (2014)

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Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard not to mourn what was lost though. Minecraft mods were how a lot of teenagers got acquainted with scripting, and it's a lot harder to get started with your own server since MS bought it and forced it to authenticate through Azure. In my kids' friendgroup at least, the "modding games as an entry point to programming" concept has been handed off from Minecraft to Roblox. It's nice that they've added a bunch o…

Lost? Nothing has been deprecated, Java edition is still supported and kept in feature parity with Bedrock aka MS Edition. Yes, Bedrock is not mod friendly like Java, but the modding community hasn't stopped. And yes they moved the license server from a Mojang server to the MS login system, but what is the real difference here? You still have to login, you just don't like MS for unrelated reasons. https://www.minecra…

> Yes, Bedrock is not mod friendly like Java

It's getting there, though. They recently introduced the framework for more advanced mods. Heck, Create Mod is even available on Bedrock now.

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#132
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard not to mourn what was lost though. Minecraft mods were how a lot of teenagers got acquainted with scripting, and it's a lot harder to get started with your own server since MS bought it and forced it to authenticate through Azure. In my kids' friendgroup at least, the "modding games as an entry point to programming" concept has been handed off from Minecraft to Roblox. It's nice that they've added a bunch o…

I can't even imagine what it's like now, but Roblox is how I first learned programming when I was 11. This was well over a decade ago. Roblox (talking in past tense; not sure how much of this is still true) allowed you to create "Places", which were basically 3D interactive universes that consisted of a few primitive parts (rect. prisms, cylinders, etc.) arranged and connected to each other, as larger solid objects,…

>You know, magic

>So I became a programmer because I wanted to be a wizard

that's a classic MIT AI lab idea.

"We'll actually see that Computer so-called-Science actually has a lot in common with magic."[0]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Op3QLzMgSY 0:40, and a lot in the SICP textbook

all your rblx info is still true, by the way. there's a lot more you can script with too, including internal and external API integration, inter-game info transfer, transactions, all kinds of stuff.

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#133
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. Microsoft did a great job handling Minecraft imo. I am still peeved that my lifetime license "mysteriously" broke during Microsoft's account transitions. Trillion dollar company lacks the manpower and technical capability to handle it? Or someone cannot be arsed to maintain "freeloader" customers.

Same here. Had one of the first few thousand accounts. Since Microsoft took over: - it got hacked. Got it back but name was changed, history not perfect anymore - much later somehow lost my account due to me trying to keep my old account I guess. Whatever I wasnt noticed that my account is going to die. It just did. Microsoft support also never answered to my request getting it back - Never played Minecraft again

Microsoft’s bean counters immediately set about milking as much profit from Minecraft as they can right after the purchase, be through Minecoin, premium skins, or by collecting PII via requiring phone numbers from everyone for “SMS verification” due to “security alert” blackmail (total joke—the attacker could just as well provide their own phone number and lock me out—except, of course, there is no actual suspicious activity: my account was never hacked, and I was not playing for years).

It was the first game I bought in my life, and 30 EUR was quite a chunk of change. Since the acquisition, it stopped being a game I have; it is now a game that Microsoft may or may not let me play. As a result, I don’t bother.

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#134
post #25
post #2

Call me a hater but I think Microsoft ruined Minecraft. The "secret knowledge" that the author describes is no longer a thing. The game shows you all the recipes. There are way too many blocks now so there's not as much need for creativity in building. Simplicity made Minecraft a true sandbox. There was no real objective, just blocks and ways to arrange them. Now there's always an objective to get the next magic/powe…

Hardly anyone interacted with the crafting system via "discovery mode". Almost everyone consulted a wiki, or I guess had a friend tell you what to do. Stumbling upon how to make an axe without looking it up has got to be the least enjoyable part of Minecraft (note: not saying it's NOT enjoyable, it's just not high up on the list for most).

> Hardly anyone interacted with the crafting system via "discovery mode"

Don't know what you mean. People use new single click automatic crafting all the time, including professional streamers on twitch. Do you enjoy brute forcing bow or fishing rod for the 100th time? Just click it to fill it in.

All hail microsoft for making it easier for us.

I bet next they will disable mob spawning unless it is exactly zero light level lol. Oh wait...

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#135

Microsoft didn't ruin Minecraft -- all they did was graciously allow the Java version (moddable) to continue to exist and improve while making Bedrock work consistently cross-platform (way more important than you may realize, so many kids are introduced via phones and tablets) and be the place where branded IP / predictable content goes. My 12 year old son has been playing since he was 6 I think, and is an unbelievab…

I believe they also changed their policy so that if you buy Minecraft, you can access both Java and Bedrock (I only play Java)

Can confirm that you can buy it from the Microsoft Store as a bundle, so for $30-$40 you get both Bedrock and Java edition.

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#136

I’ve been playing Minecraft off and on since beta, and I’ve been able to introduce each of my kids as they’ve gotten old enough to play. It is pretty amazing, they all started in creative running around punching random things and now each one has their own way they like to play. One loves to build, another mini games, survival, parkour, mods etc. we are currently watching MCC live and it’s like the Super Bowl. They a…

Never played. No idea. We're big lego fans. Where should I start? Anything to avoid?

I wouldn't recommend it unless you think you could enjoy a game without a goal or a score. I had the same questions as you but after 100s of hours I've concluded it's kind of a boring game. It's basically about figuring out thousands of undocumented details. About half of your playing time will be spent outside the game trawling through fan wikis.

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notch didn’t nail it all on his own though - Zach Barth nailed a bunch of those crafting and world manipulation and building mechanics in Infiniminer. Notch was screwing around cloning infiniminer in Java and Minecraft is kind of what popped out. Obviously he wasn’t as interested in the PVP combat mechanics that Zach built, so he ended up leaning into survival, and had some ideas about how to extend the procedural ge…

I certainly agree that Notch was standing on the shoulders of giant, brilliant Barth, and without Infiniminer we would never have gotten Minecraft. Zach's game design is so good that it makes you want to build, or build better games. You can clearly see the inspiration that took hold and the potential that Infiniminer and all Barth's other games absolutely exude. His games are worth playing not to sink time into but…

But maybe a bit of happy coincidence, or luck? Like, yes he made the final decision to use the music made by C418, but I really think you couldn't have made anything better. So, lucky those two got together? But then again, deciding to only occasionally start playing a song definitely was a great decision by notch.

I'm really someone paying attention to soundtracks. I care and think about the music people put into games. Minecraft definitely has one of the best, most recognizable and iconic soundtracks. And I've been gaming since the 90s.

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#138

I’ve been playing Minecraft off and on since beta, and I’ve been able to introduce each of my kids as they’ve gotten old enough to play. It is pretty amazing, they all started in creative running around punching random things and now each one has their own way they like to play. One loves to build, another mini games, survival, parkour, mods etc. we are currently watching MCC live and it’s like the Super Bowl. They a…

Yeah I know people who started playing with me and other buddies when they were still in college and now they play on the same server and map with their kids. What other game would that even make sense in? That's weird and awesome. It already makes me feel old seeing stuff I built a decade ago; I guess it must hit even harder if you have these moments with kids.

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#139
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are rouge-likes. They still have wikis. See Spleunky and Hades.

I've had the same idea as them, they mean something beyond a rogue like. Like here Hades has a wiki list of all "Keepsake" items and their bonuses and abilities [0]. So you can always know the Old Spiked Collar always gives 25/38/50 HP bonus. What if instead of 25 at the first tier, it was a random range from 15-35. What if there was a chance it gave a damage boost instead? Or resistance against physical damage. Or i…

Roguelikes still often have a mechanic like you describe: nethack, for example, randomises the descriptions of items, and that can affect how the game plays (because, for example, what material a ring or a wand is made of can affect how it reacts to effects). It's not quite as significant as you are suggesting, but you will find that it is still heavily documented in the game's wiki.

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#140
post #106

He makes a good point about "secret" knowledge, but I don't think that's the real secret. I believe almost everyone, including the author here, misunderstands what made Minecraft take off. It was NOT just the fact that you have creative control (which is what most people mistakenly assume is the main point) or that you need to learn how to craft to advance, or the procedural generation. It was the _combination_ of al…

> The graphics were secondary to all of the other things I mentioned

IMO, not exactly. At the time of the creation of Minecraft, "ugly" voxel graphics were a necessary technical evil in order to allow the world to be fully editable.

And then, when you start from that, the only aesthetically consistent choice for textures is to stick to retro-style low resolution. photo-realistic high-res textures don't feel entirely right.

> Pulling off the procedural generation and motivating the creativity is what made this masterful. Those were difficult features to program

I don't think they are; it's a matter of knowing that algorithms for noise generation that are both suitable for landscapes/caves and computationally efficient (perlin/simplex noise) do exist. The procgen trick itself exited for a long time before MC; Elite is famously known to have taken advantage of it, and roguelikes were using it before that.

> It was the _combination_ of all of those things with a challenging environment and mechanics that motivate you to explore those features!

To me the holy grail in not-goal-oriented true-open-world sandbox games such as MC is to ascend to the infinite game (which remembers that one source of inspiration for MC was Infiniminer). A low-hanging fruit are the "creative" players, that is players that are satisfied with building huge cities (as one of the screenshots in TFA shows) or replicas of the Enterprise, Star Destroyers etc. Those tasks can in practice be infinite. If that's not enough, you can add other infinite axis, like "red stone".

It's more difficult to achieve it with RPG-oriented players, because traditional MMORPG have a leveling mechanic that necessary has a maximum; lore and stories are also finite by default (this could change with generative AIs). Unless you let players create them. But you have to move to "true" role-playing to achieve that, like you see in also decades-old MUD games - MUD games that somewhat share with MC the property of being easily extendable because text is a much cheaper asset than audio/video/3d models. But role-playing somewhat assumes multi-player.

In single-player, a possible way out is to horizontal progression - that is, rather than having a higher and higher level up path, you have players to choose between mutually-exclusive options (the choice between tank/mage/dps in MOBAs is an example of this). In a game like MC you can have players choose between attributes that helps with farming/fighting/mining/building. If you pile up those attributes, you can get a lot of player character diversity for cheap thanks to combination explosion - much like you get a lot of different-looking characters with a relatively small amount of textures for clothing. With this device players are encouraged to play multiple characters specialized in various tasks. It at least should create some form of trade between them.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-user_dungeon and https://www.mudconnect.com/

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