> Intel is delivering a microcode patch which addresses the root cause of exposure to elevated voltages.
That’s great news for intel. If that’s correct. If not that’ll be a PR bloodbath
July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen Desktop CPUs
131–140 of 216 posts
Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen Desktop CPUs
#132There was recently[1] some talk about how the 13th/14th gen mobile chips also had similar issues, though Intel insisted it's something else. Will be interesting to see how that pans out. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41026123
For server CPUs there's not a similar problem or they realize server purchasers may be less willing to tolerate it? I'm not all that thrilled with the prospect of buying Intels especially when wondering about waiting to 5 year out replacement compared to a few generations ago, but AMD server choices can be a bit limited and I'm not really sure how to evaluate if there may be increasing surprises more across the board…
Are you talking about Xeon Scalable? Although they share the same core design as the desktop counterpart (Xeon Scalable 4th Gen shares the same Golden Cove as 12th Gen, Xeon Scalable 5th Gen shares the same Raptor Cove as 13th/14th Gen), they're very different from the desktop counterpart (monolithic vs tile/EMIB-based, ring bus vs mesh, power gate vs FIVR), and often running in a more conservative configuration (lower max clock, more conservative V/F curves, etc.). There has been a rumor about Xeon Scalable 5th Gen having the same issue, but it's more of a gossip rather than a data point.
The issue does happen with desktop chips that are being used in a server context when pairing with workstation chipset such as W680. However, there haven't been any reports of Xeon E-2400/E-3400 (which is essentially a desktop chip repurposed as a server) with C266 having these issues, though it may be because there hasn't been a large deployment of these chips on the server just yet (or even if there are, it's still too early to tell).
Do note that even without this particular issue, Xeon Scalable 4th Gen (Sapphire Rapids) is not a good chip (speaking from experience, I'm running w-3495x). It has plenty of issues such as slow clock ramp, high latency, high idle power draw, and the list goes on. While Xeon Scalable 5th Gen (Emerald Rapids) seems to have fixed most of these issues, Zen 4 EPYC is still a much better choice.
Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen Desktop CPUs
#133Remains to be seen how the microcode patch affects performance, and how these CPUs that have been affected by over-voltage to the point of instability will have aged in 6 months, or a few years from now. More voltage generally improves stability, because there is more slack to close timing. Instability with high voltage suggests dangerous levels. A software patch can lower the voltage from this point on, but it can't…
I was recently looking at building and buying a couple systems. I've always liked Intel. I went AMD this time. It seemed like the base frequencies vs boost frequencies were much farther apart on Intel than with most of the AMDs. This was especially true on the laptops were cooling is a larger concern. So I suspect they were pushing limits. Also, the performance core vs efficiency core stuff seemed kind of gimmicky wi…
A major differentiator is that Intel CPUs with E cores don’t allow the use of AVX-512, but all current AMD CPUs do. The new Zen 5 chips will run circles around Intel for any such workload. Video encoding, 3D rendering, and AI come to mind. For developers: many database engines can use AVX-512 automatically.
Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen Desktop CPUs
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well it's not just[1] redditors from what I can gather: Now Alderon Games reports that Raptor Lake crashes impact Intel's 13th and 14th-Gen processors in laptops as well. "Yes we have several laptops that have failed with the same crashes. It's just slightly more rare then the desktop CPU faults," the dev posted. These are the guys who publicly claimed[2] Intel sold defective chips based on the desktop chips crashing…
The problem may exist, but Alderon Games' report on the mobile chip is more of an anecdote here because there's not enough data points (unlike their desktop claims), and the only SKU they give (13900HX) is actually a desktop chip in a mobile package (BGA instead of LGA, so we're back into the original issue). So in the end, even with Alderon's claims, there's really not enough data points to come to a conclusion on t…
Why are you downplaying it too?
> "The laptops crash in the exact same way as the desktop parts including workloads under Unreal Engine, decompression, ycruncher or similar. Laptop chips we have seen failing include but not limited to 13900HX etc.," Cassells said.
> "Intel seems to be down playing the issues here most likely due to the expensive costs related to BGA rework and possible harm to OEMs and Partners," he continued. "We have seen these crashes on Razer, MSI, Asus Laptops and similar used by developers in our studio to work on the game. The crash reporting data for my game shows a huge amount of laptops that could be having issues."
https://old.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1e13ipy/intel_is_...
Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen Desktop CPUs
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is the most pressing question. If it was just a microcode issue a cooloff and power cycle ought to at least reset things but according to Wendel from Level 1 Tech, that doesn't seem to always be the case.
The problem is that running at too high of a voltage for sustained periods can cause physical degradation of the chip in some cases. Hopefully not here!
> can cause physical degradation of the chip in some cases.
Not in some cases. Chips always physically degrade regardless of voltage. Higher voltages will make it happen faster.
Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen Desktop CPUs
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem may exist, but Alderon Games' report on the mobile chip is more of an anecdote here because there's not enough data points (unlike their desktop claims), and the only SKU they give (13900HX) is actually a desktop chip in a mobile package (BGA instead of LGA, so we're back into the original issue). So in the end, even with Alderon's claims, there's really not enough data points to come to a conclusion on t…
Why are you downplaying it too? > "The laptops crash in the exact same way as the desktop parts including workloads under Unreal Engine, decompression, ycruncher or similar. Laptop chips we have seen failing include but not limited to 13900HX etc.," Cassells said. > "Intel seems to be down playing the issues here most likely due to the expensive costs related to BGA rework and possible harm to OEMs and Partners," he…
I'm not denying that the problem exists, but I don't think Alderon provided enough data to come to a conclusion, unlike on the desktop, where it's supported by other parties in addition to Alderon's data (where you can largely point to 14900KS/K/non-K/T, 13900KS/K/non-K/T, 14700K, and 13700K being the one affected)
Right now, the only example given is HX (which is a repackaged desktop chip[^], as mentioned), so I'm not denying that the problem is happening on HX based on their claims (and it makes a lot of sense that HX is affected! See below), but what about H CPUs? What about P CPUs? What about U CPUs? The difference in impact between "only HX is impacted" and "HX/H/P/U parts are all affected" is a few orders of magnitude (a very top-end 13th Gen mobile SKUs versus every 13th Gen mobile SKUs). Currently, we don't have enough data how widespread the issue is, and that makes it difficult to assess who is impacted by this issue from this data alone.
[^]: HX is the only mobile CPU with B0 stepping, which is the same as desktop 13th/14th Gen, while the mobile H/P/U family are J0 and Q0, which are essentially a higher clocked 12th Gen (i.e., using Golden Cove rather than Raptor Cove)
Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen Desktop CPUs
#137Wonder what Linus has to say on this. Dude knows how to rip into crappy Intel products
Torvalds or the Youtube guy?
Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen Desktop CPUs
#138Just want to say, I'm incredibly happy with my 7800X3D. It runs ~70C max like Intel chips used to and with a $35 air cooler and it's on average the fastest chip for gaming workloads right now.
I'm also very happy with my 5800X3D, it was wonderful value back when AM5 had just released and DDR5/Motherboards still cost an arm and a leg. The energy efficiency is much appreciated in the UK with our absurd price of electricity.
Same, in my BIOS I can activate a "ECO Mode", which lets me decide if I want to run my 7950x on full 170W TDP, 105W TDP or 60W TDP.
I benchmarked it, the difference between 170 and 105 is basically zero, and the difference to 60W is just a few percent of a performance hit, but way worth it, as it's ~0.3€/kWh over here.
Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen Desktop CPUs
#139Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen Desktop CPUs
#140by "microcode" i assume they meant "pcode" for the PCU? (but they decided not to make that distinction here for whatever reason?)